[109251] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Mar 21 11:41:34 2017
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:41:01 -0400
In-Reply-To: <SYXPR01MB182234D6FAFD8953B0AE1FDCAA3D0@SYXPR01MB1822.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
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On 3/21/2017 11:27 AM, Rhona Fenwick wrote:
> On the other hand, "word games" isn't quite a fair assessment. I speak
> a language where the only attested nouns for "love" are compounds
> meaning "heart-warmth" and "good-seeing". I believe, and will continue
> to, that we should be very careful about approaching the Klingon
> lexicon with expectations coloured by the richness and the semantic
> divisions of Standard Average European lexicons. If there's a
> monomorphemic Klingon word for snow, that'd be great, and I'd look
> forward to using it. But if Klingons (say) perceive snow as
> merely another form of ice, and only disambiguate when necessary by
> calling it something like {chuch ghIH}, then that should be fine too.
I don't disagree with that. And if Okrand tells us that Klingons
perceive snow as merely another form of ice, and only disambiguate when
necessary by calling it something like *chuch ghIH,* then we have our
answer, and the question was worthwhile. Asking for a noun for /snow/ is
not refusing any other ways Klingon have to refer to it. It's saying we
don't know how Klingons refer to it; would you please ask Maltz how he
refers to the stuff called /snow/? See this stuff in my hand? What do
you call it?
But when I say /I'm going to ignore your question about what you call
that stuff and talk about how an unspecified agent covered my car while
it was snowing,/ that's playing word-games.
As for your language that uses compounds to mean /love,/ well, those
compounds, and any rules on how they're used, would be the answer to how
you say /love/ in that language.
"It works differently than in English" is a perfectly valid answer
available to Okrand, and he knows it.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/2017 11:27 AM, Rhona Fenwick
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:SYXPR01MB182234D6FAFD8953B0AE1FDCAA3D0@SYXPR01MB1822.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite"><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji',
NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji',
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">On the other hand, "w</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI
Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">ord
games" isn't quite a </span><span style="font-family: Calibri,
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI
Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji',
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">fair assessment</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI
Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">. </span>I
speak a language where the only attested nouns for "love"
are compounds meaning "heart-warmth" and "good-seeing". I believe,
and will continue to, that we should be very careful
about approaching the Klingon lexicon with expectations coloured
by the richness and the semantic divisions of <span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI
Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">Standard
Average European lexicons</span>. If there's a monomorphemic
Klingon word for snow, that'd be great, and I'd look forward to
using it. But if Klingons (say) perceive snow as merely another
form of ice, and only disambiguate when necessary by calling it
something like {chuch ghIH}, then that should be fine too.</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I don't disagree with that. And if Okrand tells us that Klingons
perceive snow as merely another form of ice, and only disambiguate
when necessary by calling it something like <b>chuch ghIH,</b>
then we have our answer, and the question was worthwhile. Asking
for a noun for <i>snow</i> is not refusing any other ways Klingon
have to refer to it. It's saying we don't know how Klingons refer
to it; would you please ask Maltz how he refers to the stuff
called <i>snow</i>? See this stuff in my hand? What do you call
it?</p>
<p>But when I say <i>I'm going to ignore your question about what
you call that stuff and talk about how an unspecified agent
covered my car while it was snowing,</i> that's playing
word-games.</p>
<p>As for your language that uses compounds to mean <i>love,</i>
well, those compounds, and any rules on how they're used, would be
the answer to how you say <i>love</i> in that language.</p>
<p>"It works differently than in English" is a perfectly valid
answer available to Okrand, and he knows it.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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