[109249] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rhona Fenwick)
Tue Mar 21 11:27:10 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Rhona Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:27:02 +0000
In-Reply-To: <6f06bab9-5b83-997d-d75d-efc33a257331@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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jIghItlhpu', jIjatlh:
> peDpu'mo' DujwIj So'lu'
> "because it snowed, my car is covered"
mujang SuStel, jatlh:
> DujlIj So' nuq?
jIjang je jIH, jIjatlh:
> If you want to play it that way, peD je nuq'e'? And who knows?
> bIQ qutHommey? chuch ghIH? DujtlhuQmey taD? I'm not saying
> there's no word for the noun "snow". What I'm saying is, if one
> wanted to describe the situations that were being described, we
> do have pretty reasonable vocabulary with which to do so. Maybe
> I'm thinking of the qep'a' wishlisting slightly differently.
jang je SuStel, jatlh:
> I think you are. Someone asked for the noun for snow, and you're basicall=
y
> saying not to ask for one because you can find other ways to say it. I'd =
like
> a noun for snow so I don't have to play at circumlocution whenever I want
> to use it. I also find it highly unlikely that Klingons don't have a word=
for
> this common stuff,
I take your point. I honestly was approaching this from the perspective of =
"this is what we can already say, now let's try to work out where the serio=
us gaps are".
taH:
> and that they play word games whenever they talk about it.
On the other hand, "word games" isn't quite a fair assessment. I speak a la=
nguage where the only attested nouns for "love" are compounds meaning "hear=
t-warmth" and "good-seeing". I believe, and will continue to, that we shoul=
d be very careful about approaching the Klingon lexicon with expectations c=
oloured by the richness and the semantic divisions of Standard Average Euro=
pean lexicons. If there's a monomorphemic Klingon word for snow, that'd be =
great, and I'd look forward to using it. But if Klingons (say) perceive sno=
w as merely another form of ice, and only disambiguate when necessary by ca=
lling it something like {chuch ghIH}, then that should be fine too.
taH:
> It's a wish-list, not an I-can't-find-any-other-way-to-say-it list.
lu'. DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu'.
QeS 'utlh
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<div>
<div>jIghItlhpu', jIjatlh:</div>
<div>> peDpu'mo' DujwIj So'lu'</div>
<div>> "because it snowed, my car is covered"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>mujang SuStel, jatlh:</div>
<div>> DujlIj So' nuq?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>jIjang je jIH, jIjatlh:</div>
<div>> If you want to play it that way, peD je nuq'e'? And who know=
s?</div>
<div>> bIQ qutHommey? chuch ghIH? DujtlhuQmey taD? I'm not saying</=
div>
<div>> there's no word for the noun "snow". What I'm sayi=
ng is, if one</div>
<div>> wanted to describe the situations that were being described,=
we</div>
<div>> do have pretty reasonable vocabulary with which to do so. Ma=
ybe</div>
<div>> I'm thinking of the qep'a' wishlisting slightly differently.=
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>jang je SuStel, jatlh:</div>
<div>> I<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> think you are. Someone as=
ked for the noun for snow, and you're basically</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> saying not to ask for one b=
ecause you can find other ways to say it. </span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize: 12pt;">I'd like</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> a noun for snow so I don't =
have to play at circumlocution whenever I want</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> to use it. I also find it h=
ighly unlikely that Klingons don't have a word for</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> this common stuff,</span></=
div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">I take your point. I honestly was app=
roaching this from the perspective of "this is what we can already&nbs=
p;say, now let's try to work out where the serious gaps are".</sp=
an></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">taH:</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">> and that they play word gam=
es whenever they talk about it.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Ap=
ple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'And=
roid Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">On the other hand, "=
w</span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, =
'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', '=
Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">ord
games" isn't quite a </span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri,=
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoC=
olorEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16p=
x;">fair assessment</span><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helve=
tica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColorEmoji, 'S=
egoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">. </=
span>I
speak a language where the only attested nouns for "love" are&nb=
sp;compounds meaning "heart-warmth" and "good-seeing&qu=
ot;. I believe, and will continue to, that we should be very careful about&=
nbsp;approaching the Klingon lexicon with expectations coloured b=
y the richness
and the semantic divisions of <span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Ar=
ial, Helvetica, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', NotoColo=
rEmoji, 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Android Emoji', EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;"=
>Standard Average European lexicons</span>.
If there's a monomorphemic Klingon word for snow, that'd be great,&nb=
sp;and I'd look forward to using it. But if Klingons (say) perceive snow as=
merely another form of ice, and only disambiguate when necessary by c=
alling it something like {chuch ghIH}, then that
should be fine too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>taH:</div>
<div>> It's a wish-list, not an I-can't-find-any-other-way-to-say-i=
t list.</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>lu'. DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>QeS 'utlh</div>
</div>
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