[109244] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Mar 21 10:56:11 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 14:56:07 +0000
In-Reply-To: <SYXPR01MB1822DB4E758127F958BCA967AA3D0@SYXPR01MB1822.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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Speaking of semantic range... apart from {magh yotlh} "lawn", {yotlh} was p=
rovided for "park (e.g. recreational)" at qepHom 2016 - whence we also lear=
ned {ghommeH yotlh} "plaza, courtyard".
These suggest to me Human (or should I say Klingon?) intervention: i.e. a =
managed, cultivated piece of land vs. the open {Hatlh} "country, countrysid=
e". E.g.
Sepvetlh latlh DopDaq Hatlh lengtaHvIS qeylIS lutlhej
tlhInganpu' Hem mI' nIb
On the other side of the land, Kahless traveled the lands with
an equal number of proud Klingons (PB)
nIteb peghoS, HatlhDaq peleng
to go their separate ways, And travel the lands. (PB)
Beyond the {Sep} "region, country" lies the {Hatlh}.
--Voragh
On Behalf Of Rhona Fenwick
ghItlhpu' Voragh, jatlh:
> Actually qep'a' 2016 produced something close to one of your desiderata:
> magh Klingon plant that most closely resembles grass (n)
> magh yotlh lawn (n)
> So I would say *{magh tIq yotlh} "field of long grass" for grassland, st=
eppe, prairie,
> etc., though {Hatlh} might be better for open, uncultivated/unmanaged lan=
d.
Oh yes, I did know about those (and I'm grateful for your reminder of them!=
). I suppose I'm more thinking that we have {HuD} and {ngech} for hills and=
valleys, but for open flat land like a steppe or plain or prairie, I wasn'=
t sure if {yotlh} would be appropriate, since KGT seems to imply that it's =
a cultivated plot of land:
"The verb {yob} ("harvest") is used to refer to gathering up plants or plan=
t parts, whether from a field ({yotlh}) that has been sown or out in the wi=
ld." (KGT p.89)
I've been using {Hatlh} as a stopgap, but it'd be nice to know what the sem=
antic range is on these words.
QeS 'utlh
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Speaking of semantic range… apart=
from {magh yotlh} “lawn”, {yotlh} was provided for “park=
(e.g. recreational)” at qepHom 2016 – whence we also learned {=
ghommeH
yotlh} “plaza, courtyard”. <br>
<br>
These suggest to me Human (or should I say Klingon?) intervention: i.=
e. a managed, cultivated piece of land vs. the open {Hatlh} “country,=
countryside”. E.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.2in;text-indent:-.2in;line-hei=
ght:12.0pt;mso-line-height-rule:exactly">
<b><span style=3D"color:red"> Sepvetlh latlh DopDaq</span=
> <span style=3D"color:red">
Hatlh lengtaHvIS qeylIS</span> <span style=3D"color:red">lutlhej<br>
tlhInganpu' Hem mI' nIb</span> <br>
</b>On the other side of the land, Kahless traveled the lands with<br>
an equal number of proud Klingons (PB)<br>
<br>
<b><span style=3D"color:#C00000">nIteb peghoS, HatlhDaq peleng</span> <br>
</b>to go their separate ways, And travel the lands. (PB)<b><o:p></o:p></b>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Beyond the {Sep} “region, country=
” lies the {Hatlh}.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">--Voragh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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ial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",=
sans-serif">Rhona Fenwick<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">ghItlhpu' Voragh, jatlh:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">> Actually qep’a’ 2016 produced some=
thing close to one of your desiderata:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">> magh =
Klingon plant that most closely resembles grass (n)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">> magh yotlh lawn (n)<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black"> > So I would say *{magh tIq yotlh} “=
field of long grass” for grassland, steppe, prairie,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">> etc., though {Hatlh} might be better for open,=
uncultivated/unmanaged land.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">Oh yes, I did know about those (and I'm grateful for you=
r reminder of them!). I suppose I'm more thinking that we have {HuD} a=
nd {ngech} for hills and valleys, but for open flat
land like a steppe or plain or prairie, I wasn't sure if {yotlh} woul=
d be appropriate, since KGT seems to imply that it's a cultivated plot=
of land:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">"The verb {yob} ("harvest") is used to re=
fer to gathering up plants or plant parts, whether from a field ({yotlh}) t=
hat has been sown or out in the wild." (KGT p.89)<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">I've been using {Hatlh} as a stopgap, but it'd be nice t=
o know what the semantic range is on these words.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",sans-=
serif;color:black">QeS 'utlh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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