[109219] in tlhIngan-Hol
[tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' (pab chu' je) chabal tetlh: filling the
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?Q?Michael_K=C3=BAnin?=)
Mon Mar 20 21:40:11 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 01:40:09 +0000 (UTC)
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Michael_K=C3=BAnin?= <netzakh@yahoo.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org,
=?UTF-8?Q?Michael_K=C3=BAnin?= <netzakh@yahoo.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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=20
An hour or so ago, qurgh started the {chabal tetlh} thread for the upcoming=
qep'a' on Facebook. As=C2=A0FB is not very suitable for long and/or elabor=
ate messages, I decided to summarise my idea here.
1. {mu' chu'}
The raw idea is: take the list of 5000 most frequently used English words a=
nd see which of them are *really* missing in our knowledge of Klingon.
1.1. Certainly, the first 200 or so are expressed by affixes and other gram=
mar structures, and if any of them are *really* missing, this would belong =
to {pab chu'}.
1.2. By "*really* missing" I mean that there is no adequate translation (e.=
g., {'IHchoHmoH} for "suit (verb)", which appears in a sentence in TKD, is =
adequate, but something back-translated as "propel oneself in water" before=
{Qal} was revealed is NOT adequate---IMHO).
1.3. Another important aspect is whether we can reasonably expect that a Kl=
ingon word exists. Thus, I would=C2=A0exclude=C2=A0"Terran" words where the=
{banan naH} approach can be used. For example, if I need to say "oak", I w=
ould use {"oak" Sor}=C2=A0(there does not have to be a {Qo'noS} plant simil=
ar to the oak anyway).
2. {pab chu'}
For grammar, I would suggest to take a good English grammar for advanced le=
arners (of English as foreign language), and=C2=A0identify which grammatica=
l structures are missing in our knowledge of Klingon.
It is=C2=A0clear that some (or even many)=C2=A0structures do not have=C2=A0=
exact correspondences ("The ship in which I fled" is a famous example).
Qapla'
Netzakh
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<html><head></head><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; f=
ont-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id=3D"yui_3_=
16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3100"> <br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14=
90059316221_3054" dir=3D"ltr">An hour or so ago, qurgh started the {chabal =
tetlh} thread for the upcoming qep'a' on Facebook. As FB is not very s=
uitable for long and/or elaborate messages, I decided to summarise my idea =
here.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3192" dir=3D"ltr"><br=
></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3321" dir=3D"ltr">1. {mu'=
chu'}</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3285" dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3191" dir=3D"ltr">The ra=
w idea is: take the list of 5000 most frequently used English words and see=
which of them are *really* missing in our knowledge of Klingon.</div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3256" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3255" dir=3D"ltr">1.1. Certainly, the f=
irst 200 or so are expressed by affixes and other grammar structures, and i=
f any of them are *really* missing, this would belong to {pab chu'}.</div><=
div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3395" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div =
id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3286" dir=3D"ltr">1.2. By "*really* m=
issing" I mean that there is no adequate translation (e.g., {'IHchoHmoH} fo=
r "suit (verb)", which appears in a sentence in TKD, is adequate, but somet=
hing back-translated as "propel oneself in water" before {Qal} was revealed=
is NOT adequate---IMHO).</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3=
396" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3533"=
dir=3D"ltr">1.3. Another important aspect is whether we can reasonably exp=
ect that a Klingon word exists. Thus, I would exclude "Terran" wo=
rds where the {banan naH} approach can be used. For example, if I need to s=
ay "oak", I would use {"oak" Sor} (there does not have to be a {Qo'noS=
} plant similar to the oak anyway).</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14900=
59316221_3399" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_149005931=
6221_3398" dir=3D"ltr">2. {pab chu'}</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490=
059316221_3689" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_14900593=
16221_3648" dir=3D"ltr">For grammar, I would suggest to take a good English=
grammar for advanced learners (of English as foreign language), and i=
dentify which grammatical structures are missing in our knowledge of Klingo=
n.</div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3690" dir=3D"ltr"><br></=
div><div id=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3691" dir=3D"ltr">It is =
;clear that some (or even many) structures do not have exact corr=
espondences ("The ship in which I fled" is a famous example).</div><div id=
=3D"yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3201" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"=
yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3727" dir=3D"ltr">Qapla'</div><div id=3D"yu=
i_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3728" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div id=3D"yui_3_=
16_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3202" dir=3D"ltr">Netzakh</div><div id=3D"yui_3_1=
6_0_ym19_1_1490059316221_3203" dir=3D"ltr"><br></div></div></body></html>
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