[109148] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] {bom} and {ghuQ}: a Klingon perspective
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (sustel@trimboli.name)
Sun Mar 5 18:50:40 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
From: <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 18:49:40 -0500
In-Reply-To: <ME1PR01MB14742AA6B82F2F797515902BAA2A0@ME1PR01MB1474.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============6083774190728205551==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_D76816B0-4589-4915-BD4D-94A33C7976F1_"
--_D76816B0-4589-4915-BD4D-94A33C7976F1_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
What interests me most about this message is that Okrand seems to name the =
libretto of =E2=80=98u=E2=80=99 as a canonical source.
--=20
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
From: Rhona Fenwick
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 5:59 AM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] {bom} and {ghuQ}: a Klingon perspective
Hoch, peqIm!
I recently emailed Marc Okrand with a question for Maltz about whether Klin=
gons consider there to be a relationship between=C2=A0ghuQmey (poems) and b=
ommey (songs, chants), and in particular, whether=C2=A0ghuQ implied anythin=
g in particular about the text it describes.
As always, Maltz (and Marc) went=C2=A0above and beyond in addressing my que=
stion, so I'd like to share with you this more detailed discussion of the m=
eanings of both=C2=A0bom and ghuQ.
--------------------------
Rhona =E2=80=94
It turns out that Maltz is neither the most literary of Klingons nor is he =
the most musical (though he does enjoy a good opera now and then), so his k=
nowledge of things poetic and musical may not be the best.
That said=E2=80=A6
With bom, there's always musicality. =C2=A0The music may be provided by voi=
ce alone or by voice plus a musical instrument (or other thing acting in th=
at role). =C2=A0(Maltz wasn't sure of the word for instrumental music not a=
ssociated with lyrics or singing, probably because this is less common than=
vocal music, accompanied or not. =C2=A0He'll get back to me, he says.)
A bom could be melodious in the sense we normally think of it, singing perh=
aps accompanied by one or more musical instruments. =C2=A0Or it could be ju=
st rhythmic, perhaps accompanied by a drum of some sort. =C2=A0So, yes, a r=
ap song is a bom. =C2=A0Rhythm (as defined by Klingons as only they can) is=
essential. =C2=A0A cheer at a sporting event or political rally is a bom (=
not just "Go!" or "Run!" or "Hooray!" but things like "Here we go, big team=
, here we go!" repeated rhythmically=E2=80=A6 and endlessly).
[poD vay' ram - QeS]
(At the women's march in Washington in January, I kept hearing the repetiti=
on of one person rhythmically chanting "Show me what democracy looks like!"=
and everyone answering "This is what democracy looks like!" That's a bom.)
A bom's lyrics (bom=C2=A0mu'mey) need not rhyme, though they can and often =
do. =C2=A0(The libretto to the opera 'u' has very little if any rhyming.)
A ghuQ, on the other hand, may be rhythmic or not, and it may rhyme or not.=
=C2=A0The focus is on the words. =C2=A0It's more complex, of course, becau=
se a good poem uses words that are chosen for their affect when they come t=
ogether. =C2=A0That's "rhythm" of a sort, I suppose, but not the kind of rh=
ythm you can tap your foot to. =C2=A0A ghuQ is typically recited with no mu=
sical accompaniment. =C2=A0If there is music, the music doesn't necessarily=
(or even usually) match the ghuQ =E2=80=94 it may complement it, but it's =
not the musical version of the ghuQ.
Sometimes someone will write music for which an already-existing=C2=A0ghuQ =
is the words. =C2=A0Then a ghuQ has become a bom. =C2=A0Or, more accurately=
, there is a bom version or adaptation of the ghuQ.
If someone recites the words of a bom=C2=A0but does not sing it (someone li=
ke Shatner, maybe?), that's a recitation of the bom mu'mey; it's not a ghuQ=
.
Generally speaking, a bom is something you sing and/or hear, but other than=
for scholarly reasons (or when you're learning the words), you're not like=
ly to read a printed version of its lyrics (or music, for that matter). =C2=
=A0A ghuQ may be spoken aloud (and therefore heard), but one might also jus=
t read one.
There is an ongoing conversation in Klingon literary circles (there's a con=
cept for you!) about whether there is a difference between bom mu' and ghuQ=
=E2=80=94 that is, the words alone. =C2=A0Did Bob Dylan win the Nobel Priz=
e in Literature for his bom mu'mey or his ghuQmey?
--------------------------
(I had reasons for asking, and there is a little more to Marc's response th=
at addresses a specific context, but I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say mor=
e for now. But I'll absolutely share the rest - which I assure you all is f=
airly minor elaboration and includes no new words - when I know it's okay t=
o do so freely.)
QeS 'utlh
--_D76816B0-4589-4915-BD4D-94A33C7976F1_
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:sc=
hemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/of=
fice/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta ht=
tp-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta name=
=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72"><div cla=
ss=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>What interests me most about this me=
ssage is that Okrand seems to name the libretto of =E2=80=98u=E2=80=99 as a=
canonical source.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal>-- <br>SuStel<br>http://trimboli.name</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:=
p> </o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;bor=
der-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal=
style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@h=
otmail.com">Rhona Fenwick</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, March 5, 2017 5:59 AM=
<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org=
</a><br><b>Subject: </b>[tlhIngan Hol] {bom} and {ghuQ}: a Klingon perspect=
ive</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hoch, peqIm!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I recently emailed Marc Okrand with a q=
uestion for Maltz about whether Klingons consider there to be a relationshi=
p between <b>ghuQmey</b> (poems) and <b>bommey</b> (songs, chants), an=
d in particular, whether <b>ghuQ</b> implied anything in particular ab=
out the text it describes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0pt;color:black'>As always, Maltz (and Marc) went above and beyon=
d in addressing my question, so I'd like to share with you this more detail=
ed discussion of the meanings of both <b>bom</b> and <b>ghuQ</b>.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> =
;</o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>---------=
-----------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;c=
olor:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Rhona =E2=80=94<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:bl=
ack'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>It turns out that Maltz is neither the m=
ost literary of Klingons nor is he the most musical (though he does enjoy a=
good opera now and then), so his knowledge of things poetic and musical ma=
y not be the best.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Tha=
t said=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>With <=
b>bom</b>, there's always musicality. The music may be provided by vo=
ice alone or by voice plus a musical instrument (or other thing acting in t=
hat role). (Maltz wasn't sure of the word for instrumental music not =
associated with lyrics or singing, probably because this is less common tha=
n vocal music, accompanied or not. He'll get back to me, he says.)<o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A <b>bom</b> could be me=
lodious in the sense we normally think of it, singing perhaps accompanied b=
y one or more musical instruments. Or it could be just rhythmic, perh=
aps accompanied by a drum of some sort. So, yes, a rap song is a <b>b=
om</b>. Rhythm (as defined by Klingons as only they can) is essential=
. A cheer at a sporting event or political rally is a <b>bom</b> (not=
just "Go!" or "Run!" or "Hooray!" but things=
like "Here we go, big team, here we go!" repeated rhythmically=
=E2=80=A6 and endlessly).<br><br>[<i>poD vay' ram - QeS</i>]<br><br>(At the=
women's march in Washington in January, I kept hearing the repetition of o=
ne person rhythmically chanting "Show me what democracy looks like!&qu=
ot; and everyone answering "This is what democracy looks like!" T=
hat's a <b>bom</b>.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></d=
iv><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>A=
<b>bom</b>'s lyrics (<b>bom</b> <b>mu'mey</b>) need not rhyme, though=
they can and often do. (The libretto to the opera <b>'u'</b> has ver=
y little if any rhyming.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:bla=
ck'>A <b>ghuQ</b>, on the other hand, may be rhythmic or not, and it may rh=
yme or not. The focus is on the words. It's more complex, of co=
urse, because a good poem uses words that are chosen for their affect when =
they come together. That's "rhythm" of a sort, I suppose, b=
ut not the kind of rhythm you can tap your foot to. A <b>ghuQ</b> is =
typically recited with no musical accompaniment. If there is music, t=
he music doesn't necessarily (or even usually) match the <b>ghuQ</b> =E2=80=
=94 it may complement it, but it's not the musical version of the <b>ghuQ</=
b>.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Sometimes someone=
will write music for which an already-existing <b>ghuQ</b> is the wor=
ds. Then a <b>ghuQ</b> has become a <b>bom</b>. Or, more accura=
tely, there is a <b>bom</b> version or adaptation of the <b>ghuQ</b>.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12=
.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If someone recites the word=
s of a <b>bom</b> but does not sing it (someone like Shatner, maybe?),=
that's a recitation of the <b>bom mu'mey</b>; it's not a <b>ghuQ</b>.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
2.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Generally speaking, a <b>b=
om</b> is something you sing and/or hear, but other than for scholarly reas=
ons (or when you're learning the words), you're not likely to read a printe=
d version of its lyrics (or music, for that matter). A <b>ghuQ</b> ma=
y be spoken aloud (and therefore heard), but one might also just read one.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>There is an ongoing co=
nversation in Klingon literary circles (there's a concept for you!) about w=
hether there is a difference between <b>bom mu'</b> and <b>ghuQ</b> =E2=80=
=94 that is, the words alone. Did Bob Dylan win the Nobel Prize in Li=
terature for his <b>bom mu'mey</b> or his <b>ghuQmey</b>?<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color=
:black'>--------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p><span style=3D'=
font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>(I had reasons for asking, and there is a lit=
tle more to Marc's response that addresses a specific context, but I'm not =
sure I'm at liberty to say more for now. But I'll absolutely share the rest=
- which I assure you all is fairly minor elaboration and includes no new w=
ords - when I know it's okay to do so freely.)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>QeS 'utlh<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></ht=
ml>=
--_D76816B0-4589-4915-BD4D-94A33C7976F1_--
--===============6083774190728205551==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============6083774190728205551==--
