[109042] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Rendered fat
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rhona Fenwick)
Sun Feb 19 03:19:44 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Rhona Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2017 08:19:30 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CABSTb1eCYx8a9Q8Fd0h7znjOh2CaSDz3-HYNYuMxb_wDdsW45w@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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ghItlhpu' SuStel, jatlh:
> -wI' has the effect of nominalizing the verb into the subject of that ver=
b.
> A vutwI' is the thing that performs vut, the subject of vut.
> If you were to say *vutlu'wI', you'd be trying to nominalize the verb int=
o
> a nonexistent subject. No one in particular performs vutlu', so it makes
> no sense to talk about the noun that performs vutlu'.
jang mIp'av:
> As I said, I'd like to hear what MO has to say on the subject.
As would I. As would we all.
taH:
> It's bound to be more nuanced, not to mention a lot less bombastic and
> opinionated.
qaStaHvIS Hoch pemvam, De'wI'wIjDaq jIDachtaH, vaj ja'chuqtaHghachvam QeH'e=
' vIleghbe'pu', 'ach naDev bIwogh SoH'e' 'e' vIHar jIH, mIp'av. pab bopbogh=
vay' tlhoblu'bogh, wIjangmeH De' DISovbejbogh neH wIlo'laH. De' pegh wIwuv=
laHbe'; maybe'. bIjatlhpu' SoH, mIp'av: "it's immediately obvious to some t=
his combination nominalizes the same way as "-ee" in "employee"". qatlh? Qo=
chba' SuStel, 'ej vuDlIj'e' moHtaH DIvI' Hol SovlIj 'e' Qub 'e' QIjchu' SuS=
tel, 'ej QochmeH tlhIngan Hol De' neH lo'pu'. po' SuStel. tlhIngan Hol jatl=
h qaStaHvIS DISmey law'. pIj maQoch je jIH ghaH je, 'ach vuDDaj vIvuvtaH. n=
aDev lughchu' ghaH 'e' vIQub jIH. vuDDaj DalajQo' DaneHchugh SoH'e', vaj yI=
ruch, 'ach marq 'oqranDvo' vuD DaneH 'e' DajatlhDI' quSDaq bIba'. marqvo' t=
lhIngan Hol pab bopbogh Hoch'e' wIghoj wIneHba' net Sov. 'ach qaSpa', latlh=
nuq DaneH? vuDmeymaj neH DInoblaH. pojmeymaj DInoblaH. 'ej poj nIv Daghajc=
hugh, vaj gho'ang. 'ach pojna' tu'lu'be'chugh - DIvI' Hol "-ee" 'oSlaHchu' =
{-lu'wI'} 'e' DaQubchugh - vaj yItob.
SKI: Based on the facts we have about {-lu'} and {-wI'}, QeS feels on this =
one SuStel has it right, and thinks it's important for all to remember that=
the facts we have are, as always, all we have to go on.
QeS 'utlh
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<p>ghItlhpu' SuStel, jatlh:</p>
<p>> <b>-wI'</b> has the effect of nominalizing the verb into the subjec=
t of that verb.</p>
<p>> A <b>vutwI'</b> is the thing that performs <b>vut,</b> the subject =
of <b>vut</b>.</p>
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<div class=3D"gmail_extra">> <b></b>If you were to say <b>*vutlu'wI',</b=
> you'd be trying to nominalize the verb into<br>
> a nonexistent subject. No one in particular performs <b>vutlu',</b> so=
it makes<br>
> no sense to talk about the noun that performs <b>vutlu'.</b> <br>
<br>
jang mIp'av:<br>
> As I said, I'd like to hear what MO has to say on the subject.<br>
<br>
As would I. As would we all.<br>
<br>
taH:<br>
> It's bound to be more nuanced, not to mention a lot less bombastic and=
<br>
> opinionated<span class=3D"m_973410155822178912gmail-">.<br>
<br>
qaStaHvIS Hoch pemvam, De'wI'wIjDaq jIDachtaH, vaj ja'chuqtaHghachvam QeH'e=
' vIleghbe'pu', 'ach naDev bIwogh SoH'e' 'e' vIHar jIH, mIp'av. pab bopbogh=
vay' tlhoblu'bogh, wIjangmeH
<b>De' DISovbejbogh neH</b> wIlo'laH. De' pegh wIwuvlaHbe'; maybe'. bIjatlh=
pu' SoH, mIp'av:
<span>"it's immediately obvious to some this combination nominalizes t=
he same way as "-ee" in "employee"</span>". qatlh?=
Qochba' SuStel, 'ej vuDlIj'e' moHtaH DIvI' Hol SovlIj 'e' Qub 'e' QIjchu' =
SuStel, 'ej QochmeH tlhIngan Hol De' neH lo'pu'. po' SuStel. tlhIngan
Hol jatlh qaStaHvIS DISmey law'. pIj maQoch je jIH ghaH je, 'ach vuDDaj vI=
vuvtaH. naDev lughchu' ghaH 'e' vIQub jIH. vuDDaj DalajQo' DaneHchugh SoH'e=
', vaj yIruch, 'ach marq 'oqranDvo' vuD DaneH 'e' DajatlhDI' quSDaq bIba'. =
marqvo' tlhIngan Hol pab bopbogh
Hoch'e' wIghoj wIneHba' net Sov. 'ach qaSpa', latlh nuq DaneH? vuDmeymaj n=
eH DInoblaH. pojmeymaj DInoblaH. 'ej poj nIv Daghajchugh, vaj gho'ang. 'ach=
pojna' tu'lu'be'chugh - DIvI' Hol "-ee" 'oSlaHchu' {-lu'wI'} 'e'=
DaQubchugh - vaj yItob.<br>
<br>
SKI: Based on the facts we have about {-lu'} and {-wI'}, QeS feels on this =
one SuStel has it right, and thinks it's important for all to remember that=
the facts we have are, as always, all we have to go on.<br>
<br>
QeS 'utlh<br>
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