[109037] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Rendered fat
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Sat Feb 18 14:34:31 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:37:34 +0000
In-Reply-To: <20170218111911.GA32278@eriophora>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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ghItlh SapIr:
I suspect that part of the problem is that, for native speakers of
English and most other European languages, the most natural place for the
subject is before the verb. Thus, when we see *Soj vutlu'*, our
instincts tell us that *Soj* is the subject, rather than an object in a
sentence that doens't have an overt subject.
I can't speak for others who have asked this question, but placement of the=
object had nothing to do with my question. I based my question solely fro=
m the perspective that the pronominal prefixes which normally indicate firs=
t- or second-person subject are used with {-lu'}. My hope was that followi=
ng that model, we could also allow {-wI'} to see the assumed object as the =
subject. There is a form of "promotion" of object to subject, though admit=
tedly incomplete, especially since the explicit object placement does not c=
hange. I admit that I couldn't recall the results of previous discussions =
and so threw it in as an additional possability to be discussed for my purp=
oses. I was not proposing it as my best suggestion and knew there was a go=
od chance others would shoot it down. I accept their objections.
Jeremy
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<p>ghItlh SapIr:</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">I suspect that part of the problem is t=
hat, for native speakers of </span><br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:10pt;">
<div class=3D"PlainText">English and most other European languages, the mos=
t natural place for the<br>
subject is before the verb. Thus, when we see *Soj vutlu'*, our<br>
instincts tell us that *Soj* is the subject, rather than an object in a<br>
sentence that doens't have an overt subject.</div>
<div class=3D"PlainText"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"PlainText"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvet=
ica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",=
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", Em=
ojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">I can't speak for others who have asked this =
question,
but placement of the object had nothing to do with my question. I ba=
sed my question solely from the perspective that the pronominal prefixes wh=
ich normally indicate first- or second-person subject are used with {-lu'}.=
My hope was that following that model,
we could also allow {-wI'} to see the assumed object as the subject.  =
;There is a form of "promotion" of object to subject, though admi=
ttedly incomplete, especially since the explicit object placement does not =
change. I admit that I couldn't recall the results
of previous discussions and so threw it in as an additional possability to=
be discussed for my purposes. I was not proposing it as my best sugg=
estion and knew there was a good chance others would shoot it down. I=
accept their objections.</span></div>
<div class=3D"PlainText"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvet=
ica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",=
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", Em=
ojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;"><br>
</span></div>
<div class=3D"PlainText"><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvet=
ica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",=
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji", Em=
ojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">Jeremy</span></div>
<div class=3D"PlainText"></div>
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