[109025] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Rendered fat
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Sat Feb 18 13:39:37 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2017 10:13:43 -0500
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On 2/18/2017 8:19 AM, David Holt wrote:
> On the other hand, I'm not sure it is so clear that {tlhagh} is the
> object of {'Im}. KGT says, "the general word for "boil" is {pub}, but
> the verb used specifically to refer to the boiling of fat is {'Im}
> ["render"]." However, I believe the only example we have of {pub}
> uses the thing being boiled as the subject ({pubtaHbogh ghargh HIq}
> from CK). Does {'Im} work like {pub} and the thing that is rendering
> should be the subject?
No, it's not completely clear whether*'Im tlhagh* or *tlhagh 'Im*, or
both, are correct. (Even with an example of the subject of *pub* being
the thing boiled, it's not certain that you can't *pub* something.
Sometimes Klingon verbs go both ways. We actually have another example:
*tujpa' qul pub SuvwI' 'Iw* /a warrior's blood boils before the fire is
hot./) I don't think the contrast of *pub* and *'Im* in the text
necessarily implies similarity in their transitivities.
When we lack an example, we have to go by the English translation. *'Im*
is /render, boil fat./ Now, it could just be saying that *'Im* is the
type of boiling that happens to fat, but the English translation does
choose to use /fat/ as its object. This puts me in favor of *tlhagh
'Im.* But if I saw *'Im tlhagh,* I'd understand where you're coming
from. If I saw *'ImwI'* I'd be less comfortable, because I'd be
imagining the cook doing the rendering, rather than the fat being rendered.
Let me know when you figure out which way to interpret *tlhe'*...
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/2017 8:19 AM, David Holt wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DM5PR16MB1820AAE37B110AC20E555CAEA45C0@DM5PR16MB1820.namprd16.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite">On the other hand, I'm not sure it is so clear that
{tlhagh} is the object of {'Im}. KGT says, "the general word for
"boil" is {pub}, but the verb used specifically to refer to the
boiling of fat is {'Im} ["render"]." However, I believe the only
example we have of {pub} uses the thing being boiled as the
subject ({pubtaHbogh ghargh HIq} from CK). Does {'Im} work like
{pub} and the thing that is rendering should be the subject?</blockquote>
<br>
<p>No, it's not completely clear whether<b> 'Im tlhagh</b> or <b>tlhagh
'Im</b>, or both, are correct. (Even with an example of the
subject of <b>pub</b> being the thing boiled, it's not certain
that you can't <b>pub</b> something. Sometimes Klingon verbs go
both ways. We actually have another example: <b>tujpa' qul pub
SuvwI' 'Iw</b> <i>a warrior's blood boils before the fire is
hot.</i>) I don't think the contrast of <b>pub</b> and <b>'Im</b>
in the text necessarily implies similarity in their
transitivities.<br>
</p>
<p>When we lack an example, we have to go by the English
translation. <b>'Im</b> is <i>render, boil fat.</i> Now, it
could just be saying that <b>'Im</b> is the type of boiling that
happens to fat, but the English translation does choose to use <i>fat</i>
as its object. This puts me in favor of <b>tlhagh 'Im.</b> But if
I saw <b>'Im tlhagh,</b> I'd understand where you're coming from.
If I saw <b>'ImwI'</b> I'd be less comfortable, because I'd be
imagining the cook doing the rendering, rather than the fat being
rendered.</p>
<p>Let me know when you figure out which way to interpret <b>tlhe'</b>...<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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