[108908] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <> vImughlI'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Thu Jan 19 14:48:43 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:12:00 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com>
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On 1/17/2017 11:13 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
> So spent the day working the first paragraph of <<poSayDon>>. There
> are still a few rough spots, I think, but I believe it's an
> improvement. Looking forward to your comments.
>
> vummeH raSDajDaq ba'taH poSayDon 'ej SImtaH.
> Hoch bIQmey loH not 'e' mev:
I think I'd turn this around: *not mev Hoch bIQmey loH*/the
administration of all the waters never stopped./
> boQ law' rItlaH, mI'chaj vuSbe'lu',
> 'ej SaHbej HochHom chaH,
This gets confusing between *SaH* /be present/ and *SaH*/care about./ I
don't see any way to determine which verb you mean without reference to
the original. How about this: *'ej boQrup boQwI' law'qu'*/and very many
aides were ready to assist./
> 'ach ghaHvaD potlhqu'mo' Qu'Daj,
> Hoch Simqa' poSayDon, 'ej vaj ghaHvaD ram QaHchaj.
> Qu'Daj tIvbe'ba' poSayDon. ghaHvaD poQlu'mo', vum ghaH.
I'm not sure I agree with *ghaHvaD poQlu'mo'*/because it was required
for him./ And it doesn't include the idea that he "only" did it because
it was assigned, that he would do something else if it weren't assigned.
Say rather something like: *ghaHvaD Qu' noblu'pu'mo' ta' 'ach ta'
neHbe'*/he did the job because it has been given to him but he didn't
want to do it./
> pIj <<QuchmoHbogh Qu'>> tlhob -- mu'meyvetlh pup lo' --
I think *mu'meyvetlh pup* means /those words, which are
perfect,**/rather than /those words exactly./ How about *mu'meyna'vetlh*?
> 'ej DuHmey Sar chuplu',
*luchuplu'*
> 'ach ghaHvaD nIvqu'mo' Qu'Daj wa'DIch,
I'm not totally pleased with this phrase, and I can't quite say why. I
think I'd rather see a comparative sentence here.
> lajbe' ghaH. reH che'wI' ratlhnISmo' poSayDon, Qatlh Qu' pIm tu'meH mIw.
> ghaHvaD yapbe'bej wa' bIQ neH yer. Qu' chu' lajchugh, ngajchoHbe'
> SImmeH mIw: ramchoH neH 'oH. bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e'
> chuplu'chugh, ropmoH qechvam: Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu',
> 'ej QomchoH roDaj Hosghaj. bep poSayDon, 'ach ghaH Harbej pagh:
I'd simplify this to *bepDI' poSayDon Harbej pagh.*
> QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', ghaH yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, 'ej ghaytanHa'
> 'oHchugh Qapla', vaj ghaHvaD ghetnISlu'.
This is a little confusing. I'm especially uncertain about the
grammaticality of *ghaytanHa' 'oHchugh Qapla'.* Maybe we could just say
this*: **QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI' yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, vabDot
yonmoHlaHbe'ba'chugh vay'.*
> Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon
> 'e' qel pagh.
I don't think you could use *-bej* here. You're not saying Poseidon will
certainly change his job. You might put the *-bej* on *qel,* though.
> qa'vam bIQmey Qun'a' gheS ghaH, 'ej vaj ratlhnIStaH.
>
> Poseidon sat at his desk, doing figures. The administration
> of all the waters gave him endless work. He could have had
> assistants, as many as he wanted — and he did have very many —
> but since he took his job very seriously, he would in the end go over
> all the figures and calculations himself, and thus his assistants
> were of little help to him. It cannot be said that he enjoyed his work;
> he did it only because it had been assigned to him; in fact, he had
> already filed many petitions for — as he put it — more cheerful work,
> but every time the offer of something different was made to him
> it would turn out that nothing suited him quite as well as his present
> position. And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something different
> for him. After all, it was impossible to assign him to a particular sea;
> aside from the fact that even then the work with figures would not
> become less but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any case
> occupy only an executive position. And when a job away from
> the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very prospect,
> his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen chest
> began to tremble. Besides, his complaints were not really taken
> seriously;
> when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an effort
> must be made to placate him, even when the case is most hopeless.
> In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for Poseidon — he had
> been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he had to remain
>
> QimSIr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/17/2017 11:13 PM, Brian Cote
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>So spent the day working the first paragraph of
<<poSayDon>>. There are still a few rough spots, I
think, but I believe it's an improvement. Looking forward to
your comments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>vummeH raSDajDaq ba'taH poSayDon 'ej SImtaH. </div>
<div>Hoch bIQmey loH not 'e' mev:</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I think I'd turn this around: <b>not mev Hoch bIQmey loH</b><i>
the administration of all the waters never stopped.</i></p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> boQ law' rItlaH, mI'chaj vuSbe'lu', </div>
<div>'ej SaHbej HochHom chaH,</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This gets confusing between <b>SaH</b> <i>be present</i> and <b>SaH</b><i>
care about.</i> I don't see any way to determine which verb you
mean without reference to the original. How about this: <b>'ej
boQrup boQwI' law'qu'</b><i> and very many aides were ready to
assist.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> 'ach ghaHvaD potlhqu'mo' Qu'Daj, </div>
<div>Hoch Simqa' poSayDon, 'ej vaj ghaHvaD ram QaHchaj. </div>
<div>Qu'Daj tIvbe'ba' poSayDon. ghaHvaD poQlu'mo', vum ghaH. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'm not sure I agree with <b>ghaHvaD poQlu'mo'</b><i> because it
was required for him.</i> And it doesn't include the idea that
he "only" did it because it was assigned, that he would do
something else if it weren't assigned. Say rather something like:
<b>ghaHvaD Qu' noblu'pu'mo' ta' 'ach ta' neHbe'</b><i> he did the
job because it has been given to him but he didn't want to do
it.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>pIj <<QuchmoHbogh Qu'>> tlhob -- mu'meyvetlh pup
lo' -- <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I think <b>mu'meyvetlh pup</b> means <i>those words, which are
perfect,<b> </b></i>rather than <i>those words exactly.</i>
How about <b>mu'meyna'vetlh</b>?<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>'ej DuHmey Sar chuplu',</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><b>luchuplu'</b><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> 'ach ghaHvaD nIvqu'mo' Qu'Daj wa'DIch, <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'm not totally pleased with this phrase, and I can't quite say
why. I think I'd rather see a comparative sentence here.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>lajbe' ghaH. reH che'wI' ratlhnISmo' poSayDon, Qatlh Qu' pIm
tu'meH mIw. </div>
<div>ghaHvaD yapbe'bej wa' bIQ neH yer. Qu' chu' lajchugh,
ngajchoHbe' </div>
<div>SImmeH mIw: ramchoH neH 'oH. bIQDaq 'oHbe'taHbogh Qu''e' </div>
<div>chuplu'chugh, ropmoH qechvam: Qun tlhuHDaj nISchoHlu', </div>
<div>'ej QomchoH roDaj Hosghaj. bep poSayDon, 'ach ghaH Harbej
pagh: <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'd simplify this to <b>bepDI' poSayDon Harbej pagh.</b><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI', ghaH yonmoHlu' net nIDnIS, 'ej
ghaytanHa' </div>
<div>'oHchugh Qapla', vaj ghaHvaD ghetnISlu'.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>This is a little confusing. I'm especially uncertain about the
grammaticality of <b>ghaytanHa' 'oHchugh Qapla'.</b> Maybe we
could just say this<b>: </b><b>QeHDI' HoSghajqu'wI' yonmoHlu' net
nIDnIS, vabDot yonmoHlaHbe'ba'chugh vay'.</b><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> Qu'Daj choHbej poSayDon </div>
<div>'e' qel pagh.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I don't think you could use <b>-bej</b> here. You're not saying
Poseidon will certainly change his job. You might put the <b>-bej</b>
on <b>qel,</b> though.<br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO2WtUEoT+kYBK9=R88J6NmTUYb+i-KS9Nq6VWNOxDveHg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> qa'vam bIQmey Qun'a' gheS ghaH, 'ej vaj ratlhnIStaH.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Poseidon sat at his desk, doing figures. The administration </div>
<div>of all the waters gave him endless work. He could have had </div>
<div>assistants, as many as he wanted — and he did have very
many — </div>
<div>but since he took his job very seriously, he would in the end
go over </div>
<div>all the figures and calculations himself, and thus his
assistants </div>
<div>were of little help to him. It cannot be said that he enjoyed
his work; </div>
<div>he did it only because it had been assigned to him; in fact,
he had </div>
<div>already filed many petitions for — as he put it — more
cheerful work, </div>
<div>but every time the offer of something different was made to
him </div>
<div>it would turn out that nothing suited him quite as well as
his present </div>
<div>position. And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something
different </div>
<div>for him. After all, it was impossible to assign him to a
particular sea; </div>
<div>aside from the fact that even then the work with figures
would not </div>
<div>become less but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any
case </div>
<div>occupy only an executive position. And when a job away from </div>
<div>the water was offered to him he would get sick at the very
prospect, </div>
<div>his divine breathing would become troubled and his brazen
chest </div>
<div>began to tremble. Besides, his complaints were not really
taken seriously; </div>
<div>when one of the mighty is vexatious the appearance of an
effort </div>
<div>must be made to placate him, even when the case is most
hopeless. </div>
<div>In actuality a shift of posts was unthinkable for
Poseidon — he had </div>
<div>been appointed God of the Sea in the beginning, and that he
had to remain</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>QimSIr </div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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