[108860] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] <> vImughlI'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Jan 9 09:40:59 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 09:40:25 -0500
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On 1/8/2017 3:48 PM, Brian Cote wrote:
> vum 'e' tIvbe'ba'. ghIghDaj rInmoH, raDlu'mo'. pIj <<Qu' Quch>> nej.
> (mu'meyvetlh pup lo'.) 'ach DuH Sar chupDI' vay', reH Qu'Daj
> wa'DIch maSchu'.
> >It cannot be said that he enjoyed his work; he did it only because
> it had been assigned to him; in fact, he had already filed many
> petitions for
> — as he put it — more cheerful work, but every time the offer of
> something
> different was made to him it would turn out that nothing suited him
> quite as well as his present position.
> >Man kann nicht sagen, daß ihn die Arbeit freute, er führte sie
> eigentlich
> nur aus, weil sie ihm auferlegt war, ja er hatte sich schon oft um
> fröhlichere
> Arbeit, wie er sich ausdrückte, beworben, aber immer, wenn man ihm dann
> verschiedene Vorschläge machte, zeigte es sich, daß ihm doch nichts
> so zusagte, wie sein bisheriges Amt.
You've done a good job finding synonyms and alternative turns of phrase
here, but I fear the sense of unwelcome bureaucracy has been lost.
Perhaps look into using words like *chaw'* (as a noun) and *tlhob*
> Qu' pIm tu' ghaHvaD 'e' Qatlhqu' ghu'.
> >And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something different for him.
> >Es war auch sehr schwer, etwas anderes für ihn zu finden.
Ah! the *Qatlh* trap. People are always trying to translate /it is
difficult to/ with **'e' Qatlh.* But *Qatlh* means /be difficult;/ it
doesn't take an object. Whenever you try to turn a "be something" verb
into a "be something to..." it doesn't work in Klingon.
Try this: *Qatlh Qu' pIm tu'meH mIw*/the process of finding a different
job is difficult//(the in-order-to-find-a-different-job process is
difficult)./
> wa' bIQ neH DevlaHbe'chu': che'wI' 'oHlaH neH poSayDon'e'. tlhoy yaH
> ngo'Daq SIm. yaH chu'Daq rap. 'ach naDev ram ngoQ.
> >After all, it was impossible to assign him to a particular sea; aside
> from the fact that even then the work with figures would not become less
> but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any case occupy only
> an executive position.
> >Man konnte ihm doch unmöglich etwa ein bestimmtes Meer zuweisen;
> abgesehen davon, daß auch hier die rechnerische Arbeit nicht kleiner,
> sondern nur kleinlicher war, konnte der große Poseidon doch immer nur
> eine beherrschende Stellung bekommen.
Instead of *che'wI' 'oHlaH neH poSayDon'e'*/Poseidon could merely be a
ruler,/ use *che'wI' neH 'oHlaH poSayDon'e'*/Poseidon could be a ruler
only./
I think you've gone off the rails here as far as expressing meaning. I
don't really see the connection between the English and the Klingon
after the first sentence. Where's "the great Poseidon" and his inability
to stoop to a lower level? Where's the less-but-prettier of his
calculations? This isn't just about him doing figures in an old job or a
new; it's about the irony of Poseidon being so powerful he's incompetent
at doing anything but the job he hates. Make sure that that theme, above
all, comes across in your translation. The exact words are less important.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/8/2017 3:48 PM, Brian Cote wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO0r+J1eTtxbwH+mS7VpE7HsZf6_PQ8zTfhuMqukKhzcaA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>vum 'e' tIvbe'ba'. ghIghDaj rInmoH, raDlu'mo'. pIj
<<Qu' Quch>> nej. <br>
(mu'meyvetlh pup lo'.) 'ach DuH Sar chupDI' vay', reH Qu'Daj
<br>
wa'DIch maSchu'.<br>
>It cannot be said that he enjoyed his work; he did it
only because <br>
it had been assigned to him; in fact, he had already filed
many petitions for <br>
— as he put it — more cheerful work, but every time the
offer of something <br>
different was made to him it would turn out that nothing
suited him <br>
quite as well as his present position.<br>
>Man kann nicht sagen, daß ihn die Arbeit freute, er
führte sie eigentlich <br>
nur aus, weil sie ihm auferlegt war, ja er hatte sich schon
oft um fröhlichere <br>
Arbeit, wie er sich ausdrückte, beworben, aber immer, wenn
man ihm dann <br>
verschiedene Vorschläge machte, zeigte es sich, daß ihm doch
nichts <br>
so zusagte, wie sein bisheriges Amt.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>You've done a good job finding synonyms and alternative turns of
phrase here, but I fear the sense of unwelcome bureaucracy has
been lost. Perhaps look into using words like <b>chaw'</b> (as a
noun) and <b>tlhob</b><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO0r+J1eTtxbwH+mS7VpE7HsZf6_PQ8zTfhuMqukKhzcaA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>Qu' pIm tu' ghaHvaD 'e' Qatlhqu' ghu'.<br>
>And anyhow it was quite difficult to find something
different for him.<br>
>Es war auch sehr schwer, etwas anderes für ihn zu finden.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Ah! the <b>Qatlh</b> trap. People are always trying to translate
<i>it is difficult to</i> with <b>*'e' Qatlh.</b> But <b>Qatlh</b>
means <i>be difficult;</i> it doesn't take an object. Whenever
you try to turn a "be something" verb into a "be something to..."
it doesn't work in Klingon.<br>
</p>
<p>Try this: <b>Qatlh Qu' pIm tu'meH mIw</b><i> the process of
finding a different job is difficult</i><i> (the
in-order-to-find-a-different-job process is difficult).</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAHgxQO0r+J1eTtxbwH+mS7VpE7HsZf6_PQ8zTfhuMqukKhzcaA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>wa' bIQ neH DevlaHbe'chu': che'wI' 'oHlaH neH poSayDon'e'.
tlhoy yaH<br>
</div>
ngo'Daq SIm. yaH chu'Daq rap. 'ach naDev ram ngoQ.<br>
>After all, it was impossible to assign him to a particular
sea; aside <br>
from the fact that even then the work with figures would not
become less <br>
but only pettier, the great Poseidon could in any case occupy only
<br>
an executive position.
<div>
<div>
<div>>Man konnte ihm doch unmöglich etwa ein bestimmtes
Meer zuweisen; <br>
abgesehen davon, daß auch hier die rechnerische Arbeit nicht
kleiner, <br>
sondern nur kleinlicher war, konnte der große Poseidon doch
immer nur <br>
eine beherrschende Stellung bekommen.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Instead of <b>che'wI' 'oHlaH neH poSayDon'e'</b><i> Poseidon
could merely be a ruler,</i> use <b>che'wI' neH 'oHlaH
poSayDon'e'</b><i> Poseidon could be a ruler only.</i></p>
<p>I think you've gone off the rails here as far as expressing
meaning. I don't really see the connection between the English and
the Klingon after the first sentence. Where's "the great Poseidon"
and his inability to stoop to a lower level? Where's the
less-but-prettier of his calculations? This isn't just about him
doing figures in an old job or a new; it's about the irony of
Poseidon being so powerful he's incompetent at doing anything but
the job he hates. Make sure that that theme, above all, comes
across in your translation. The exact words are less important.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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