[108654] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Alan Anderson)
Wed Dec 28 14:39:54 2016
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cK0MC84W_187g8qfF-Qq0oFury2qKfuXZes1YP22RyhSA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 14:39:28 -0500
To: Klingon language email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 12:26 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> ghunchu'wI':
> > You have not yet demonstrated your
> > understanding.
>
> I wrote earlier my understanding of time span and time stamp, through the
> dialogue which took place between me and SuStel. did you expect me to write
> specific examples or something ?
>
What you wrote, and what you continue to write, shows that your
understanding in this matter is still faulty.
As far as the {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, is concerned, I still can't
> understand where is the problem.
>
> As SuStel said, {Soch DIS vorgh} is a time stamp. As was said earlier in
> this thread, time stamps don't require the {qaStaHvIS}. So, in the {Soch
> DIS vorgh jIQuch}, where is the problem ?
>
I haven't seen a message where he said that {Soch DIS vorgh} is a time
stamp. On the contrary, I have seen him pointing out that counting days or
years makes them *not* a time stamp.
> You can say that for you "it doesn't convey the desired
> meaning/feeling/whatever". But is it ungrammatical ?
>
The phrase {Soch DIS vorgh} has no obvious function in your suggested {Soch
DIS vorgh jIQuch}, and the sentence does not convey a meaning I can
identify with any confidence. I would call it ungrammatical.
> If the sentence utilized a time span instead i.e. {Soch DIS jIQuch}, then
> for the reasons SuStel explained, it would be ungrammatical. But since it
> uses a time stamp, then where is the problem ?
>
The problem is that it does *not* use a time stamp.
> Can you explain with reasonable arguments why I can say {DaSjaj jIQuch},
> while at the same time you are telling me that I cannot say {Soch DIS vorgh
> jIQuch} ?
>
SuStel has already given exactly the reasonable arguments I would use. I
don't know how to improve on them, besides stating again that a counted
duration is a time span and is not the kind of thing one uses as a time
stamp.
> Or is the {qaStaHvIS} another glorious "maltz said so" ? because if it is,
> then hey I'm all for it ! just tell me though, and save me the grief of
> trying to understand obviously contradictory explanations.
>
The only contradictory explanation I see is when SuStel said "X is a time
stamp; Y is a time span" but you then said "SuStel says Y is a time stamp."
-- ghunchu'wI'
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On W=
ed, Dec 28, 2016 at 12:26 PM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">ghunchu=
9;wI':<span class=3D""><div dir=3D"auto">>=C2=A0You have not yet dem=
onstrated your=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">> understanding.</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><br></div></span><div dir=3D"auto">I wrote earlier my understan=
ding of time span and time stamp, through the dialogue which took place bet=
ween me and SuStel. did you expect me to write specific examples or somethi=
ng ?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What you wrote, and what y=
ou continue to write, shows that your understanding in this matter is still=
faulty.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><div dir=3D"auto">As far as the=C2=A0{Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, is concern=
ed, I still can't understand where is the problem.<br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">As SuStel said, {Soch DIS vorgh} is a ti=
me stamp. As was said earlier in this thread, time stamps don't require=
the {qaStaHvIS}. So, in the {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, where is the problem =
?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I haven't seen a message =
where he said that {Soch DIS vorgh} is a time stamp. On the contrary, I hav=
e seen him pointing out that counting days or years makes them *not* a time=
stamp.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"au=
to"><div dir=3D"auto">You can say that for you "it doesn't convey =
the desired meaning/feeling/whatever". But is it ungrammatical ?<br></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The phrase {Soch DIS vorgh} has =
no obvious function in your suggested {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch}, and the sent=
ence does not convey a meaning I can identify with any confidence. I would =
call it ungrammatical.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"></div><div dir=3D"auto">If the sentenc=
e utilized a time span instead i.e. {Soch DIS jIQuch}, then for the reasons=
SuStel explained, it would be ungrammatical. But since it uses a time stam=
p, then where is the problem ?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>The problem is that it does *not* use a time stamp.</div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Can you explain with reasonable arguments why I can say =
{DaSjaj jIQuch}, while at the same time you are telling me that I cannot sa=
y {Soch DIS vorgh jIQuch} ?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>SuStel has already given exactly the reasonable arguments I would use. I d=
on't know how to improve on them, besides stating again that a counted =
duration is a time span and is not the kind of thing one uses as a time sta=
mp.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">=
<div dir=3D"auto"></div><div dir=3D"auto">Or is the {qaStaHvIS} another glo=
rious "maltz said so" ? because if it is, then hey I'm all fo=
r it ! just tell me though, and save me the grief of trying to understand o=
bviously contradictory explanations.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>The only contradictory explanation I see is when SuStel said &quo=
t;X is a time stamp; Y is a time span" but you then said "SuStel =
says Y is a time stamp."</div><div><br></div><div>-- ghunchu'wI=
9;</div></div></div></div>
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