[108648] in tlhIngan-Hol
[tlhIngan Hol] The conspicuous absence of -ew', -Iw' and -Iy'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Wed Dec 28 10:01:59 2016
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 15:01:48 +0000
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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A while back, I made the observation that there are no attested Klingon wor=
ds with a syllable ending in -ew', -Iw' or -Iy'.
This is rather peculiar, as words/syllables ending in -ew ({ghew}, {qew}, {=
Supghew}...), -Iw ('Iw, lIw, mIw...) and -Iy (lIy, wIy, nIyma'...) have all=
been used in canon.
That being said, these examples are quite rare. I did a (rather sloppy) sea=
rch for words containing syllables ending in -aw, -ew, -Iw, -ay, -ey, -Iy, =
-oy and -uy in canon, along with those same ones followed by ' and found th=
e following. The results can be found at the end of this e-mail.
The list does show a certain deficit of words with syllables ending in -ew =
(7) or -Iw (7, 3 of which are compounds involving 'Iw) compared with -aw (1=
8), which may go some way towards explaining the lack of -ew' and -Iw'; per=
haps they're not forbidden, but incredibly rare.
Interestingly, however, -aw' was more common than -aw, so it's slightly sur=
prising that -ew' and -Iw' are completely absent.
Has there been any discussion of this? Does anybody have any idea what the =
reason might be? Has anybody perhaps even asked Okrand?
I find it rather curious, because with Klingon's rather rigid syllable stru=
cture, I'd kind of expect a very high percentage of the possible syllables =
to be in use for something, and assuming that useful words are spread out f=
airly evenly, it's a bit surprising that we haven't seen any.
I have noticed that the vowels 'at and 'ot appear to be the most frequently=
occuring in the language, followed by 'et and 'ut, and then 'It in last pl=
ace. Could it be that some sort of unwritten rule makes frequently used wor=
ds more likely to contain these popular vowels, and thus less likely to con=
tain these absent syllable endings? Might there be a wealth of highly esote=
ric terminology using -ew' and -Iw' and -Iy' out there that only Klingon dw=
eebs use?
It's worth noting that TKD only contained one word ending in -Irgh, namely =
{chIrgh}, and it wasn't until KGT that we got our second one, {SIrgh}. The =
third one arrived ... four weeks ago, namely the word {'Irgh}, meaning "bul=
ly" (verb):
http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PopCultureHeroCoalition
So, it does seem quite possible that these words are still out there, and w=
e just haven't seen them yet.
=3D=3D Counting syllables =3D=3D
-aw: 18 words + 1 Terran location name
-ew: 7 words + {qewwI'}* + 1 Terran location name
-Iw: 7 words** + 1 Terran location name
-ow: 0 (see TKD p.17)
-uw: 0 (see TKD p.17)
-aw': 23 + 1 verb suffix
-ew': 0
-Iw': 0
-ow': 0 (forbidden?)
-uw': 0 (forbidden?)
-ay: 22 words*** + qaywI'** + 20 letter names + 1 Terran location name
-ey: 17 words + 2 noun suffixes + 4 Klingon names + 1 Terran location name
-Iy: 7 words + 1 Klingon location name + 5 Terran location names (including=
rIymuS)
-oy: 7 words + 1 noun suffix
-uy: 11 words
-ay': 31 words=86 + Qay'wI'** + 1 Klingon(?) location name (tay'ghoqor) + =
2 Terran location names
-ey': 10 words
-Iy': 0
-oy': 16 words=86=86 + 1 non-Klingon(?) location name (Doy'yuS)
-uy': 10 words
Here I have treated spaceless or irregular compound words (such as {qawHaq}=
pr {paw'aD}) as their own words, but not words that can be formed regularl=
y using suffixes (such as {qawmoH}).
When two words are related homonyms (i.e. the noun {chaw'} and the verb {ch=
aw'}), both are counted.
I did not count words such as {DoyIchlan}, which I read as Do-yIch-lan, rat=
her than Doy-Ich-lan, so as not to have any syllables starting with vowels.=
Words like {quy'Ip}, where the apostrophe is immediately followed a vowel,=
were counted to the non-apostrophe tally (-uy in this case), for the same =
reason.
Transcriptions of Terran non-location names (such as {jemS tIy qIrq}, {Day =
joH} and {'entepray'}) have been ignored because I'm lazy.
*I wasn't sure if I should treat {qewwI'}, {qaywI'} and {Qay'wI'} as their =
own words, as they are regularly derived terms (qew + -wI'), but with fairl=
y specific meanings which are not *quite* obvious from this analysis.
**Of these 7 words, 3 clearly involve the root {'Iw}: {'Iw}, {'Iwghargh} an=
d {ro'qegh'Iwchab}. I felt this was worth noting.
***Of these 21 words, 6 clearly involve the root {tay} ("rite, ceremony, ri=
tual"): {tay}, {chontay}, {Heghtay}, {muvtay}, {nentay}, {ruStay}. If we do=
n't count these or letter names, then -ey is more common than -ay (and, in =
terms of usage frequency, it almost certainly is anyway, thanks to -mey and=
to some degree -Hey).
=86Of these 31 words, 5 are battle-related and include the syllable {may'}:=
{may'}, {DIvI'may'Duj}, {may'Duj}, {may'luch} and {may'morgh}
=86=86Of these 16 words, 4 are pain-related and include the syllable {'oy'}=
: {'oy} (noun), {'oy'} (verb) and {'oy'naQ}.
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<p>A while back, I made the observation that there are no attested Klingon =
words with a syllable ending in -ew', -Iw' or -Iy'.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>This is rather peculiar, as words/syllables ending in -ew ({ghew}, {qew}=
, {Supghew}...), -Iw ('Iw, lIw, mIw...) and -Iy (lIy, wIy, nIyma'...) have =
all been used in canon.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>That being said, these examples are quite rare. I did a (rather sloppy) =
search for words containing syllables ending in -aw, -ew, -Iw, -ay, -ey, -I=
y, -oy and -uy in canon, along with those same ones followed by '=
and found the following. The results can
be found at the end of this e-mail.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>The list does show a certain deficit of words with syllables ending in -=
ew (7) or -Iw (7, 3 of which are compounds involving 'Iw) compared with -aw=
(18), which may go some way towards explaining the lack of -ew' and -Iw'; =
perhaps they're not forbidden, but
incredibly rare.</p>
<p>Interestingly, however, -aw' was more common than -aw, so it's slightly =
surprising that -ew' and -Iw' are completely absent.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Has there been any discussion of this? Does anybody have any idea what t=
he reason might be? Has anybody perhaps even asked Okrand?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
I find it rather curious, because with Klingon's rather rigid syllable stru=
cture, I'd kind of expect a very high percentage of the possible syllables =
to be in use for something, and assuming that useful words are spread out f=
airly evenly, it's a bit surprising
that we haven't seen any.</p>
<p>I have noticed that the vowels 'at and 'ot appear to be the most&nb=
sp;frequently occuring in the language, followed by 'et and 'ut, and t=
hen 'It in last place. Could it be that some sort of unwritten rule makes f=
requently used words more likely to contain these
popular vowels, and thus less likely to contain these absent syllable endi=
ngs? Might there be a wealth of highly esoteric terminology using -ew' and =
-Iw' and -Iy' out there that only Klingon dweebs use?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It's worth noting that TKD only contained one word ending in -Irgh, name=
ly {chIrgh}, and it wasn't until KGT that we got our second one, {SIrgh}. T=
he third one arrived ... four weeks ago, namely the word {'Irgh}, meaning &=
quot;bully" (verb): </p>
<p><a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PopCultureHeroCoalition">http:/=
/www.klingonwiki.net/En/PopCultureHeroCoalition</a>
</p>
<p>So, it does seem quite possible that these words are still out there, an=
d we just haven't seen them yet.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>=3D=3D Counting syllables =3D=3D<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>-aw: 18 words + 1 Terran location name</p>
<p>-ew: 7 words + {qewwI'}* + 1 Terran location name<br>
</p>
<p>-Iw: 7 words** + 1 Terran location name</p>
<p>-ow: 0 (see TKD p.17)<br>
</p>
<p>-uw: 0 (see TKD p.17)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>-aw': 23 + 1 verb suffix</p>
<p>-ew': 0</p>
<p>-Iw': 0</p>
<p>-ow': 0 (forbidden?)</p>
<p>-uw': 0 (forbidden?)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>-ay: 22 words*** + qaywI'** + 20 letter names + 1 Terran loc=
ation name</p>
<p>-ey: 17 words + 2 noun suffixes + 4 Klingon names + 1 Terran=
location name</p>
<p>-Iy: 7 words + 1 Klingon location name + 5 Terran loca=
tion names (including rIymuS)</p>
<p>-oy: 7 words + 1 noun suffix </p>
<p>-uy: 11 words</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>-ay': 31 words=86 + Qay'wI'** + 1 Klingon(?) location name=
(tay'ghoqor) + 2 Terran location names</p>
<p>-ey': 10 words</p>
<p>-Iy': 0</p>
<p>-oy': 16 words=86=86 + 1 non-Klingon(?) location name (Doy'yuS)=
</p>
<p>-uy': 10 words <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Here I have treated spaceless or irregular compound words (such as {qawH=
aq} pr {paw'aD}) as their own words, but not words that can be formed regul=
arly using suffixes (such as {qawmoH}).</p>
<p>When two words are related homonyms (i.e. the noun {chaw'} and the verb =
{chaw'}), both are counted.</p>
<p>I did not count words such as {DoyIchlan}, which I read as Do-yIch-lan, =
rather than Doy-Ich-lan, so as not to have any syllables starting with vowe=
ls. Words like {quy'Ip}, where the apostrophe is immediately followed a vow=
el, were counted to the non-apostrophe
tally (-uy in this case), for the same reason.</p>
<p>Transcriptions of Terran non-location names (such as {jemS tIy qIrq}, {D=
ay joH} and {'entepray'}) have been ignored because I'm lazy.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>*I wasn't sure if I should treat {qewwI'}, {qaywI'} and {Qay'wI'} as the=
ir own words, as they are regularly derived terms (qew + -wI'), but wit=
h fairly specific meanings which are not *quite* obvious from this analysis=
.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>**Of these 7 words, 3 clearly involve the root {'Iw}: {'Iw}, {'Iwghargh}=
and {ro'qegh'Iwchab}. I felt this was worth noting.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>***Of these 21 words, 6 clearly involve the root {tay} ("rite, cere=
mony, ritual"): {tay}, {chontay}, {Heghtay}, {muvtay}, {nentay}, =
{ruStay}. If we don't count these or letter names, then -ey is more common =
than -ay (and, in terms of usage frequency, it
almost certainly is anyway, thanks to -mey and to some degree -Hey).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>=86Of these 31 words, 5 are battle-related and include the syllable {may=
'}: {may'}, {DIvI'may'Duj}, {may'Duj}, {may'luch} and {may'morgh}
</p>
<p>=86=86Of these 16 words, 4 are pain-related and include the syllable {'o=
y'}: {'oy} (noun), {'oy'} (verb) and {'oy'naQ}.<br>
</p>
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