[108624] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Dec 27 12:51:20 2016
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 12:50:47 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKsbbGvWrJUkND6c6VrTZ8MqS3jtkJpqZV7-oQ1ekzQjw@mail.gmail.com>
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On 12/27/2016 12:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> for quite some time now, I am wondering as to the extent one must use
> the {qaStaHvIS}.
>
> my understanding is, that if we are talking about an event which takes
> place once, there is no need for {qaStaHvIS}.
>
> example:
> DaSjaj matlheD
> (on) monday we depart
>
> on the other hand, if we talk of an event that lasts quite some time,
> then the qaStaHvIS is (seemingly) required.
>
> example:
> qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum
> while monday is happening I work
>
> so, here is my first question: in the aforementioned example
> {qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum}, is the {qaStaHvIS} necessary ? can't I just
> write {DaSjaj jIvum} ?
Yes, you can just write *DaSjaj jIvum*/I work on Monday./ You're not
telling us about how your work was structured, just that on Monday, work
happened.
>
> maj..
>
> moving on, my next question is "if we are talking of singular events
> which take place multiple times, do we use the {qaStaHvIS} ?"
>
> example:
> on monday I kill four birds
> do I write
> {DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH}
> or do I write
> {qaStaHvIS DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH}
For simple time expressions, this doesn't make a difference. *qaStaHvIS*
is much more useful when referring to events, e.g. *qaStaHvIS SoQ
jIQongchoH*/I fell asleep during the speech,/ or time periods, e.g.,
*qaStaHvIS wej DIS toQDuj baHwI' jIH*/I was a Bird of Prey gunner for
three years.
/
Exactly when a phrase is a time expression or a time period is difficult
for me to articulate. Longer periods get treated like time periods when
the subject is events of short duration (like a single fight during a
period of three years). *qaStaHvIS *has a sort of "zooming-in" effect;
you are examining a subset of the entire period and saying that the
period was going on before the point you're looking at and continues on
after the point you're looking at. When you want to zoom in, treat it
like a time period and use *qaStaHvIS.* When you just want to label when
something happened, and you don't want to zoom into the context of the
moment, use a time expression.
//
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/27/2016 12:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cKsbbGvWrJUkND6c6VrTZ8MqS3jtkJpqZV7-oQ1ekzQjw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">for quite some time now, I am wondering as to the
extent one must use the {qaStaHvIS}.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">my understanding is, that if we are talking about
an event which takes place once, there is no need for
{qaStaHvIS}.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">example:</div>
<div dir="auto">DaSjaj matlheD</div>
<div dir="auto">(on) monday we depart</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">on the other hand, if we talk of an event that
lasts quite some time, then the qaStaHvIS is (seemingly)
required.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">example:</div>
<div dir="auto">qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum</div>
<div dir="auto">while monday is happening I work</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">so, here is my first question: in the
aforementioned example {<span style="font-family:sans-serif">qaStaHvIS
DaSjaj jIvum}, is the {qaStaHvIS} necessary ? can't I just
write {DaSjaj jIvum} ?</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Yes, you can just write <b>DaSjaj jIvum</b><i> I work on Monday.</i>
You're not telling us about how your work was structured, just
that on Monday, work happened.</p>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAP7F2cKsbbGvWrJUkND6c6VrTZ8MqS3jtkJpqZV7-oQ1ekzQjw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">maj..</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif">moving on, my
next question is "if we are talking of singular events which
take place multiple times, do we use the {qaStaHvIS} ?"</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><span style="font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">example:</font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">on monday I kill four
birds</font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">do I write </font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">{DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH}</font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">or do I write</font></div>
<div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">{qaStaHvIS DaSjaj loS
bo'Degh vIHoH}</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>For simple time expressions, this doesn't make a difference. <b>qaStaHvIS</b>
is much more useful when referring to events, e.g. <b>qaStaHvIS
SoQ jIQongchoH</b><i> I fell asleep during the speech,</i> or
time periods, e.g., <b>qaStaHvIS wej DIS toQDuj baHwI' jIH</b><i><font
size="-1"> </font>I was a Bird of Prey gunner for three
years.<br>
</i></p>
<p>Exactly when a phrase is a time expression or a time period is
difficult for me to articulate. Longer periods get treated like
time periods when the subject is events of short duration (like a
single fight during a period of three years). <b>qaStaHvIS </b>has
a sort of "zooming-in" effect; you are examining a subset of the
entire period and saying that the period was going on before the
point you're looking at and continues on after the point you're
looking at. When you want to zoom in, treat it like a time period
and use <b>qaStaHvIS.</b> When you just want to label when
something happened, and you don't want to zoom into the context of
the moment, use a time expression.<br>
<i></i></p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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