[102739] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Aspect, etc
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Wed Dec 2 08:21:47 2015
In-Reply-To: <565EEC97.1030803@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2015 14:21:29 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Thanks for the additional info, SuStel, and the interpretation of that
difference.
In Russian and many Southeast Asian language, which also have aspect (and
the latter usually don't have tense), it is possible to say something like
"I killed him, but didn't kill-him-to-the-end.", basically referring to an
attempted but failed murder. In the same way, it's possible to say "He was
dying, but didn't die.", meaning that the person or animal did survive
after all. That of course is possible in Klingon, too: {vIHoH(-taH), 'ach
vIHoHpu'be'.} (I'd use {-taH} or even {-lI'}, but am not 100% sure that it
has to be used here).
With "context time" I meant the relative time stated in the same sentence.
If {wa'Hu'} is included in the sentence, the killing was finished yesterday
(so it either happened before yesterday or yesterday before the exact time
the sentence refers to).
- Andr=C3=A9
2015-12-02 14:05 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:
> On 12/2/2015 7:48 AM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wrote:
>
>> But the difference between {'opHu' targh vIHoHpu'} and {'opHu' targh
>> vIHoH} is minute if at all existing.
>>
>
> The difference between them is explained in TKD 4.2.7: "The absence of a
> Type 7 suffix usually means that the action is not completed and is not
> continuous..."
>
> So whereas the first sentence expresses a completed action, the second
> does not. The second sentence could be used if I spent the day killing
> targs, or if I was a targ-hunter several days ago but I'm not now, or oth=
er
> interpretations like that. But the first sentence can only mean that as o=
f
> several days ago, targ-killing was completed. It also doesn't mean that
> targ-killing was completed before several days ago, because that would be
> incorporating tense into the suffix.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://www.trimboli.name/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div>Thanks for the additional info, SuStel, and=
the interpretation of that difference.<br><br></div>In Russian and many So=
utheast Asian language, which also have aspect (and the latter usually don&=
#39;t have tense), it is possible to say something like "I killed him,=
but didn't kill-him-to-the-end.", basically referring to an attem=
pted but failed murder. In the same way, it's possible to say "He =
was dying, but didn't die.", meaning that the person or animal did=
survive after all. That of course is possible in Klingon, too: {vIHoH(-taH=
), 'ach vIHoHpu'be'.} (I'd use {-taH} or even {-lI'}, b=
ut am not 100% sure that it has to be used here).<br><br></div>With "c=
ontext time" I meant the relative time stated in the same sentence. If=
{wa'Hu'} is included in the sentence, the killing was finished yes=
terday (so it either happened before yesterday or yesterday before the exac=
t time the sentence refers to).<br><br></div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-12-02 14:05 GMT+01:0=
0 SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" targ=
et=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-=
left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 12/2/2015 7:48 AM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller wro=
te:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
But the difference between {'opHu' targh vIHoHpu'} and {'op=
Hu' targh<br>
vIHoH} is minute if at all existing.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
The difference between them is explained in TKD 4.2.7: "The absence of=
a Type 7 suffix usually means that the action is not completed and is not =
continuous..."<br>
<br>
So whereas the first sentence expresses a completed action, the second does=
not. The second sentence could be used if I spent the day killing targs, o=
r if I was a targ-hunter several days ago but I'm not now, or other int=
erpretations like that. But the first sentence can only mean that as of sev=
eral days ago, targ-killing was completed. It also doesn't mean that ta=
rg-killing was completed before several days ago, because that would be inc=
orporating tense into the suffix.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.trimboli.name/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://www.trimboli.name/</a></font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=
=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
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a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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