[102720] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Due to the refusal, the topic is forgotten
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (John R. Harness)
Tue Dec 1 17:47:53 2015
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2015 16:47:37 -0600
From: "John R. Harness" <cartweel@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Hi! Thanks for using the KLBC tag!
I think you have indeed hit on an ambiguity. As far as I understand it, the
{-Qo'} will negate the verb root unless it is otherwise made obvious from
context. Maybe a more advanced speaker can clarify this.
As for suffix placement, the rule is described in section 4.3 of the
dictionary: "Unlike {-be',} the position of {-Qo'} does not change: it
occurs last, unless followed by a Type 9 suffix." Note: This is one of
those "Rovers" that doesn't rove -- Thanks, Marc. wejpuH.
For this rule to be useful you'll need to remember the Type 9 suffixes, the
"syntactic markers" -- -DI', -chugh, -pa', -vIS, -mo', -jaj, -ghach. (See
section 4.2.9, and don't forget to check the same section in the addendum.)
Concerning -mo' and 'e', your sentences are correct except that I'm not
sure what you are trying to do with the 'e' in your first sentence. 'e' is
used to emphasize the topic of statements, in the "to be" statement ({ X
'oH/ghaH Y'e'} =3D X is Y}) and as a pronoun referring to a previous
sentence. Check out TKD sections 3.3.5 and 6.3 for clarification. Also, I
think it is generally considered good form but not mandatory that the -mo'
statement proceed the rest of the sentence.
I think you are saying "Teacher! Do not forget!" However you should use
-Qo' to make imperatives negative -- {yIlIjQo'}. I don't think you can use
-lu' with an imperative.
I hope this helps! jatlhwI'pu', what do you think?
'arHa
=E2=80=94
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:41:06 -0500
> From: fata irae <fatairae@gmail.com>
> To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Due to the refusal, the topic is
> forgotten
> Message-ID:
> <
> CA+_YdeuQwLmCX-S3CnPkhVpJN6mFGDqnGvn4jd60Fg5gh0i5bQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"
>
> ghojmoHwI''e' yIlIjbe'lu'!
>
> So, a couple ideas here, just throwing them out to see if I've got the
> right idea.
>
> ----
> Playing with -Qo', and trying to figure out how to use it in a more compl=
ex
> construction. Got simple ones like jItujQo', but when other suffixes ent=
er
> the equation, I become unsure.
>
> bIbIrlaHQo'
> You won't (refuse) be able to be cold
> You are able to refuse to be cold
>
> The second makes more sense, but since the -Qo' must be at the end, it
> gives the impression of being applied to the entire concept. Or is it ju=
st
> one of those ambiguities?
>
> ----
> Playing with -mo', and incidentally playing with 'e', and wanted to make
> sure these made sense:
>
> SuHeghlI' 'e' choleghpu'mo'
> They are dying, because you saw me
>
> qulmo' matujchoH
> Due to the fire, we are becoming hot
>
> ----
> Incidentally, did the initial statement make sense?
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi! Thanks for using the KLBC tag!<div><br></div><div>I th=
ink you have indeed hit on an ambiguity. As far as I understand it, the {-Q=
o'} will negate the verb root unless it is otherwise made obvious from =
context. Maybe a more advanced speaker can clarify this.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>As for suffix placement, the rule is described in section 4.3 of the=
dictionary: "Unlike {-be',} the position of {-Qo'} does not c=
hange: it occurs
last, unless followed by a Type 9 suffix." Note: This is one of those =
"Rovers" that doesn't rove -- Thanks, Marc. wejpuH.</div><div=
><br></div><div>For this rule to be useful you'll need to remember the =
Type 9 suffixes, the "syntactic markers" -- -DI', -chugh, -pa=
', -vIS, -mo', -jaj, -ghach. (See section 4.2.9, and don't forg=
et to check the same section in the addendum.)</div><div><br></div><div>Con=
cerning -mo' and 'e', your sentences are correct except that I&=
#39;m not sure what you are trying to do with the 'e' in your first=
sentence. 'e' is used to emphasize the topic of statements, in the=
"to be" statement ({ X 'oH/ghaH Y'e'} =3D X is Y}) a=
nd as a pronoun referring to a previous sentence. Check out TKD sections 3.=
3.5 and 6.3 for clarification. Also, I think it is generally considered goo=
d form but not mandatory that the -mo' statement proceed the rest of th=
e sentence.</div><div><br></div><div>I think you are saying "Teacher! =
Do not forget!" However you should use -Qo' to make imperatives ne=
gative -- {yIlIjQo'}. I don't think you can use -lu' with an im=
perative.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope this helps! jatlhwI'pu', =
what do you think?</div><div><br></div><div>'arHa<br><div><div class=3D=
"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><table style=3D"margin-left:0px" borde=
r=3D"0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(128=
,128,128);font-size:smaller">=E2=80=94=C2=A0</span></td></tr></tbody></tabl=
e></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:41:06 -0500<br>
From: fata irae <<a href=3D"mailto:fatairae@gmail.com">fatairae@gmail.co=
m</a>><br>
To: tlhIngan-Hol <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@k=
li.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: Due to the refusal, the topic is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 forgotten<br>
Message-ID:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <<a href=3D"mailto:CA%2B_YdeuQwLmCX-S3CnPkhV=
pJN6mFGDqnGvn4jd60Fg5gh0i5bQ@mail.gmail.com">CA+_YdeuQwLmCX-S3CnPkhVpJN6mFG=
DqnGvn4jd60Fg5gh0i5bQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"<br>
<br>
ghojmoHwI''e' yIlIjbe'lu'!<br>
<br>
So, a couple ideas here, just throwing them out to see if I've got the<=
br>
right idea.<br>
<br>
----<br>
Playing with -Qo', and trying to figure out how to use it in a more com=
plex<br>
construction.=C2=A0 Got simple ones like jItujQo', but when other suffi=
xes enter<br>
the equation, I become unsure.<br>
<br>
bIbIrlaHQo'<br>
You won't (refuse) be able to be cold<br>
You are able to refuse to be cold<br>
<br>
The second makes more sense, but since the -Qo' must be at the end, it<=
br>
gives the impression of being applied to the entire concept.=C2=A0 Or is it=
just<br>
one of those ambiguities?<br>
<br>
----<br>
Playing with -mo', and incidentally playing with 'e', and wante=
d to make<br>
sure these made sense:<br>
<br>
SuHeghlI' 'e' choleghpu'mo'<br>
They are dying, because you saw me<br>
<br>
qulmo' matujchoH<br>
Due to the fire, we are becoming hot<br>
<br>
----<br>
Incidentally, did the initial statement make sense?</blockquote></div></div=
></div></div></div>
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