[102685] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Pronouncing Klingon correctly
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Mon Nov 30 12:13:39 2015
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W580BBDD62AB1FAC65CA355AA000@phx.gbl>
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 18:13:22 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Something that I've never seen before in any natural language is the exact
workings of {-lu'}, the passive/indefinite subject suffix. It implies an
unspecified subject, but then the object that is being acted upon triggers
subject agreement (i.e. 'someone sees me' becomes {vIlughlu'}), but then,
syntactically, the object stays where it should: before the verb.
I've never seen this before in any natural language (and I'm a linguist
too, so I've heard of quite a bunch of crazy stuff going on in the world's
languages!).
- Andr=C3=A9
2015-11-30 17:42 GMT+01:00 Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>:
> ghItlhpu' qunnoQ, jatlh:
> > I have read too,that Okrand deliberately integrated in klingon
> > elements unlike anything else included in terran languages ; Is there
> > a link,where these "exclusively alien elements" of klingon are
> > mentioned ?
>
> I don't know that a list of such things has ever been collected in one
> place.
>
> In any case, only one such "exclusively alien" fact springs to my mind
> readily (though I'm sure there are many others), and that is that there i=
s
> no Terran language that has a phonemic distinction between the Klingon
> sounds represented as {q} and {Q}. Both are found phonetically in various
> languages - the former reasonably frequently, the latter much less so and
> mostly in the Caucasus (and no surprise there) - but there's no known
> natural language where the distinction between the two is phonologically
> meaningful.
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Something that I've never seen before in any=
natural language is the exact workings of {-lu'}, the passive/indefini=
te subject suffix. It implies an unspecified subject, but then the object t=
hat is being acted upon triggers subject agreement (i.e. 'someone sees =
me' becomes {vIlughlu'}), but then, syntactically, the object stays=
where it should: before the verb.<br></div>I've never seen this before=
in any natural language (and I'm a linguist too, so I've heard of =
quite a bunch of crazy stuff going on in the world's languages!).<br><b=
r></div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">2015-11-30 17:42 GMT+01:00 Rohan Fenwick <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
;<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmail.c=
om</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' qunnoQ, jatlh:<span class=3D""><br>>=
I have read too,that Okrand deliberately integrated in klingon<br></span><=
div><span class=3D"">> elements unlike anything else included in terran =
languages ; Is there<br>> a link,where these "exclusively alien ele=
ments" of klingon are<br>> mentioned ?<br><br></span>I don't kn=
ow that a list of such things has ever been collected in one place.<br><br>=
In any case, only one such "exclusively alien" fact springs to my=
mind readily (though I'm sure there are many others), and that is that=
there is no Terran language that has a phonemic distinction between the Kl=
ingon sounds represented as {q} and {Q}. Both are found phonetically in var=
ious languages - the former reasonably frequently, the latter much less so =
and mostly in the Caucasus (and no surprise there) - but there's no kno=
wn natural language where the distinction between the two is phonologically=
meaningful.<br><br>QeS 'utlh<br></div> </div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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