[102586] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Objects, direct and indirect
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rohan Fenwick)
Tue Nov 24 23:10:10 2015
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 14:09:54 +1000
In-Reply-To: <56547C66.9090108@trimboli.name>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============9205820403093660436==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_1f36e5ff-f18e-4bd0-bed8-f557b2fdc6ec_"
--_1f36e5ff-f18e-4bd0-bed8-f557b2fdc6ec_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
jIghItlhpu' jIH=2C jIjatlhpu':
> What is happening in Klingon is a clear and simple (in my eyes=2C at
> least) instance of syntactic demotion.
(poD HochHom)
jang SuStel=2C jatlh:
> What he said! :D
I hope I haven't been seeming like I've just ignored your comments on this =
matter=2C SuStel! I confess there was much of the initial parts of the disc=
ussion that I was just barely able to keep up with=2C never mind respond to=
. There are some ways in which I'm not sure I agree with you in terms of ju=
st how absent the semantic distinction is - for instance=2C where does one =
draw the line between the semantic indirect object and the semantic benefac=
tive? Does {-vaD} actually kind of cover two clearly distinct types of sema=
ntic ground? Because where {-vaD} marks a genuine benefactive=2C as in {Qu'=
vaD lI' De'vam} "this information is useful for the mission" (TKD p.28)=2C =
I'd have real issues with promoting {Qu'} to direct object. But in terms of=
the causative construction=2C at least=2C wa' DoS wIqIpba'mo' jIQuchbej je=
jIH. {{:)
taH:
> We get two more examples in paq'batlh:
> maHvaD lojmItmey tIpoSmoH
> Notice that it's not {lojmItmey ghopoSmoH}.
Though that said=2C {lojmItmey ghopoSmoH} should hypothetically be possible=
here. One wonders whether having the prefix trick or not here would make a=
difference in register or emphasis=2C but that's a question for some other=
time.
taH:
> QIt ghaHvaD yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH
chovnatlhmeyvam lI' juja'ta'mo' (pun not intended) qatlho'.
QeS 'utlh =
--_1f36e5ff-f18e-4bd0-bed8-f557b2fdc6ec_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px=3B
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt=3B
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>jIghItlhpu' jIH=2C jIjatlhpu':<b=
r>>=3B What is happening in Klingon is a clear and simple (in my eyes=2C =
at<br>>=3B least) instance of syntactic demotion.<br><br>(poD HochHom)<br=
><br>jang SuStel=2C jatlh:<br>>=3B What he said! :D<br><br>I hope I haven=
't been seeming like I've just ignored your comments on this matter=2C SuSt=
el! I confess there was much of the initial parts of the discussion that I =
was just barely able to keep up with=2C never mind respond to. There are so=
me ways in which I'm not sure I agree with you in terms of just how absent =
the semantic distinction is - for instance=2C where does one draw the line =
between the semantic indirect object and the semantic benefactive? Does {-v=
aD} actually kind of cover two clearly distinct types of semantic ground? B=
ecause where {-vaD} marks a genuine benefactive=2C as in {Qu'vaD lI' De'vam=
} "this information is useful for the mission" (TKD p.28)=2C I'd have real =
issues with promoting {Qu'} to direct object. But in terms of the causative=
construction=2C at least=2C wa' DoS wIqIpba'mo' jIQuchbej je jIH. {{:)<br>=
<br>taH:<br>>=3B We get two more examples in paq'batlh:<br>>=3B maHvaD =
lojmItmey tIpoSmoH<br>>=3B Notice that it's not {lojmItmey ghopoSmoH}.<br=
><br>Though that said=2C {lojmItmey ghopoSmoH} should hypothetically be pos=
sible here. One wonders whether having the prefix trick or not here would m=
ake a difference in register or emphasis=2C but that's a question for some =
other time.<br><br>taH:<br>>=3B QIt ghaHvaD yIn Hegh je vIghojmoH<br><br>=
chovnatlhmeyvam lI' juja'ta'mo' (pun not intended) qatlho'.<br><br>QeS 'utl=
h </div></body>
</html>=
--_1f36e5ff-f18e-4bd0-bed8-f557b2fdc6ec_--
--===============9205820403093660436==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============9205820403093660436==--
