[102539] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Objects, direct and indirect
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Nov 23 09:37:09 2015
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:37:07 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmM3yDPT-bR4SA2brsUWXrzCeEztPN7gJ=Ow5DQw3LyTAw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
On 11/23/2015 8:26 AM, De'vID wrote:
> SuStel has presented a hypothesis about how some verbs work with
> multiple objects, namely, that "Klingon syntax does not distinguish
> between direct and indirect objects at all, even when it does so
> semantically."
>
> I just wanted to know how (he thinks) {-chuq} would work under such a
> hypothesis. I'm not *asserting* that that's how it works. I'm asking,
> *assuming* that's how it works, how would {-chuq} work with his idea.
> My goal isn't to invent grammar willy-nilly; it's to find a way to
> parse {quv HIja'chuqQo'} as a grammatical Klingon sentence.
Based on just the rules of {-chuq} in TKD, I would say that no explicit
object is allowed with a {-chuq} verb, and the verb prefix must indicate
"no object."
However, we have at least that one example from paq'batlh, so either the
example (examples?) is in error or the rule in TKD isn't complete.
Given {quv HIja'chuqQo'}, my first guess would be what QeS has
suggested: that {ja'chuq} has become a lexicalized unit. In that case,
we have a perfectly ordinary situation, in which the object represents a
semantic direct object (or, more properly, a theme) and the verb prefix
indicates a semantic indirect object (or, more property, a recipient).
> Okay. What about {quv'e' maja'chuq} and {Qu'maj'e' maqawchuqmoH}?
This works too, but it's a little roundabout. You're saying you're
conferring and you're saying what the topic is, but you're not
explicitly saying that you're conferring about the topic. It would be
like saying in English, "Honor. We have a discussion." Obviously, the
discussion is about honor, but you didn't quite say that.
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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