[102422] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC : Sentences as objects
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Wed Nov 18 16:45:40 2015
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 21:45:22 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKt+gZ-iVsH3MUbPnGxG1cwkK8HTscdpZ8d26FjjOvZjA@mail.gmail.com>
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I wasn't going to correct you. You did so much right in that sentence that=
I completely understood it and could easily overlook on missing prefix. H=
owever, since you are attempting to correct yourself, I want to make sure y=
ou correct yourself correctly. It should actually be {bo-} since you have =
the object {Hoch}.
janSIy
________________________________
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2015 3:02 PM
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC : Sentences as objects
it just occured to me ; I forgot the {Su-}.. Hoch Sujangmo' Savan. wa'l=
eS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS.
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:34 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihk=
oun@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hoch jangmo' Savan. wa'leS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:29 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihk=
oun@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hoch jangmo' Savan. wa'leS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS.
qunnoQ
On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com<mai=
lto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've proven many times the poor quality of my memory, particularly when rel=
ating to the questions "who, what, when, where", though I tend to better re=
member "how" and "why". I don't have your phonographic memory.
What I remember about the interview was that we tried to avoid talking much=
about the language before or after the interview specifically to avoid the=
situation that we seem to be in right now. We both wanted everything said =
to be in the interview, available to the most people and not some kind of i=
nsider info. I didn't want to come out of the rare opportunity of talking w=
ith him with any information that didn't get shared in HolQeD.
That I said, "And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person addr=
essed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the thing you say,"=
suggests that either he had told me about this earlier in the interview or=
before the interview, as I suspect, or, as you suggest, I made it up and t=
ried to get him to ascribe to my theory. That was not my goal, though this =
was a lot of years ago. Maybe I was that pushy and shallow then, but I doub=
t it.
I don't think I did a lot of leading the witness in the interview. I tried =
hard not to. More than that, I tried to bring up points that he would eithe=
r accept, reject, or better explain.
I don't have the interview with me just now. Let me look at it again and se=
e if I can be more specific, though I trust that you've already been throug=
h it and there's probably nothing to find.
What I do remember was being taken aback by the statement that the two verb=
s were different in nature. It prompted me to ask if there were a similar d=
ifference in the verbs for asking...
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:11 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name<mailto:sustel@tri=
mboli.name>> wrote:
On 11/18/2015 2:01 PM, Will Martin wrote:
He said that the direct object of {ja'} was the person or persons
being addressed, hence {ja'chuq} being translated as "discuss"
because it involves people telling each other something.
If he ever said this, it never entered the canon. Was this something he sai=
d to you personally, or was it part of an interview or a published source? =
I remember in your HolQeD interview with him on the topic YOU made this cla=
im to HIM, but he didn't say anything about it.
=3D=3D
WM: Are there any other verbs of speech that you would care to
comment on?
MO: Are there any other verbs of speech?
WM: And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person addressed and =
a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the thing you say.
MO: The speech event.
WM: I like that term.
MO: Including a direct quote. I'm telling a story. He "blah, blah, blah" {j=
atlh}.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<p>I wasn't going to correct you. You did so much right in that sente=
nce that I completely understood it and could easily overlook on missing pr=
efix. However, since you are attempting to correct yourself, I w=
ant to make sure you correct yourself correctly.
It should actually be {bo-} since you have the object {Hoch}.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>janSIy</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> qunnoQ HoD <mihkou=
n@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 18, 2015 3:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC : Sentences as objects</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">it just occured to me ; I forgot the {Su-}.. &n=
bsp; Hoch Sujangmo' Savan. wa'leS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS.
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:34 PM, qunnoQ HoD <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.co=
m</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"im HOEnZb">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hoch jangmo' Savan. wa'leS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS<=
/div>
</span>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:29 PM, qunnoQ HoD <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.co=
m</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hoch jangmo' Savan. wa'leS QInmeyraj vIHaD. DaH jIQongnIS.<span><font =
color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<span><font color=3D"#888888">qunnoQ<br>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 9:38 PM, Will Martin <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">lojmitti=
7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">
<div>I’ve proven many times the poor quality of my memory, particular=
ly when relating to the questions “who, what, when, where”, tho=
ugh I tend to better remember “how” and “why”. I do=
n’t have your phonographic memory.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I remember about the interview was that we tried to avoid talking=
much about the language before or after the interview specifically to avoi=
d the situation that we seem to be in right now. We both wanted everything =
said to be in the interview, available
to the most people and not some kind of insider info. I didn’t want =
to come out of the rare opportunity of talking with him with any informatio=
n that didn’t get shared in HolQeD.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That I said, “And a typical direct object of {ja’} would b=
e the person addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be th=
e thing you say,” suggests that either he had told me about this earl=
ier in the interview or before the interview, as I
suspect, or, as you suggest, I made it up and tried to get him to ascribe =
to my theory. That was not my goal, though this was a lot of years ago. May=
be I was that pushy and shallow then, but I doubt it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don’t think I did a lot of leading the witness in the intervie=
w. I tried hard not to. More than that, I tried to bring up points that he =
would either accept, reject, or better explain.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don’t have the interview with me just now. Let me look at it a=
gain and see if I can be more specific, though I trust that you’ve al=
ready been through it and there’s probably nothing to find.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What I do remember was being taken aback by the statement that the two=
verbs were different in nature. It prompted me to ask if there were a simi=
lar difference in the verbs for asking...</div>
<span><br>
<div><span style=3D"border-collapse:separate; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family=
:Helvetica; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; let=
ter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px; text-transform:non=
e; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<div>pItlh</div>
<div>lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
<br>
</span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:11 PM, SuStel <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimb=
oli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>On 11/18/2015 2:01 PM, Will Martin wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">He said that the direct object of {ja’} was=
the person or persons<br>
being addressed, hence {ja’chuq} being translated as “discuss&#=
8221;<br>
because it involves people telling each other something.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
If he ever said this, it never entered the canon. Was this something he sai=
d to you personally, or was it part of an interview or a published source? =
I remember in your HolQeD interview with him on the topic YOU made this cla=
im to HIM, but he didn't say anything
about it.<br>
<br>
=3D=3D<br>
WM: Are there any other verbs of speech that you would care to<br>
comment on?<br>
<br>
MO: Are there any other verbs of speech?<br>
<br>
WM: And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person addressed and =
a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the thing you say.<br>
<br>
MO: The speech event.<br>
<br>
WM: I like that term.<br>
<br>
MO: Including a direct quote. I'm telling a story. He "blah, blah, bla=
h" {jatlh}.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a>=
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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