[102412] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC : Sentences as objects
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Wed Nov 18 14:38:44 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 14:38:27 -0500
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <564CCD4A.4010704@trimboli.name>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I=E2=80=99ve proven many times the poor quality of my memory, =
particularly when relating to the questions =E2=80=9Cwho, what, when, =
where=E2=80=9D, though I tend to better remember =E2=80=9Chow=E2=80=9D =
and =E2=80=9Cwhy=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t have your phonographic =
memory.
What I remember about the interview was that we tried to avoid talking =
much about the language before or after the interview specifically to =
avoid the situation that we seem to be in right now. We both wanted =
everything said to be in the interview, available to the most people and =
not some kind of insider info. I didn=E2=80=99t want to come out of the =
rare opportunity of talking with him with any information that didn=E2=80=99=
t get shared in HolQeD.
That I said, =E2=80=9CAnd a typical direct object of {ja=E2=80=99} would =
be the person addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would =
be the thing you say,=E2=80=9D suggests that either he had told me about =
this earlier in the interview or before the interview, as I suspect, or, =
as you suggest, I made it up and tried to get him to ascribe to my =
theory. That was not my goal, though this was a lot of years ago. Maybe =
I was that pushy and shallow then, but I doubt it.
I don=E2=80=99t think I did a lot of leading the witness in the =
interview. I tried hard not to. More than that, I tried to bring up =
points that he would either accept, reject, or better explain.
I don=E2=80=99t have the interview with me just now. Let me look at it =
again and see if I can be more specific, though I trust that you=E2=80=99v=
e already been through it and there=E2=80=99s probably nothing to find.
What I do remember was being taken aback by the statement that the two =
verbs were different in nature. It prompted me to ask if there were a =
similar difference in the verbs for asking...
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:11 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>=20
> On 11/18/2015 2:01 PM, Will Martin wrote:
>> He said that the direct object of {ja=E2=80=99} was the person or =
persons
>> being addressed, hence {ja=E2=80=99chuq} being translated as =
=E2=80=9Cdiscuss=E2=80=9D
>> because it involves people telling each other something.
>=20
> If he ever said this, it never entered the canon. Was this something =
he said to you personally, or was it part of an interview or a published =
source? I remember in your HolQeD interview with him on the topic YOU =
made this claim to HIM, but he didn't say anything about it.
>=20
> =3D=3D
> WM: Are there any other verbs of speech that you would care to
> comment on?
>=20
> MO: Are there any other verbs of speech?
>=20
> WM: And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person addressed =
and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the thing you say.
>=20
> MO: The speech event.
>=20
> WM: I like that term.
>=20
> MO: Including a direct quote. I'm telling a story. He "blah, blah, =
blah" {jatlh}.
>=20
> --=20
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99ve proven many times the poor =
quality of my memory, particularly when relating to the questions =
=E2=80=9Cwho, what, when, where=E2=80=9D, though I tend to better =
remember =E2=80=9Chow=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cwhy=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t =
have your phonographic memory.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">What I remember about the interview was =
that we tried to avoid talking much about the language before or after =
the interview specifically to avoid the situation that we seem to be in =
right now. We both wanted everything said to be in the interview, =
available to the most people and not some kind of insider info. I =
didn=E2=80=99t want to come out of the rare opportunity of talking with =
him with any information that didn=E2=80=99t get shared in =
HolQeD.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">That I =
said, =E2=80=9CAnd a typical direct object of {ja=E2=80=99} would be the =
person addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the =
thing you say,=E2=80=9D suggests that either he had told me about this =
earlier in the interview or before the interview, as I suspect, or, as =
you suggest, I made it up and tried to get him to ascribe to my theory. =
That was not my goal, though this was a lot of years ago. Maybe I was =
that pushy and shallow then, but I doubt it.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I don=E2=80=99t think I did a lot of =
leading the witness in the interview. I tried hard not to. More than =
that, I tried to bring up points that he would either accept, reject, or =
better explain.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I don=E2=80=99t have the interview with me just now. Let me =
look at it again and see if I can be more specific, though I trust that =
you=E2=80=99ve already been through it and there=E2=80=99s probably =
nothing to find.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">What I do remember was being taken aback by the statement =
that the two verbs were different in nature. It prompted me to ask if =
there were a similar difference in the verbs for asking...</div><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 18, 2015, at 2:11 PM, SuStel <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" =
class=3D"">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">On 11/18/2015 2:01 =
PM, Will Martin wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" =
class=3D"">He said that the direct object of {ja=E2=80=99} was the =
person or persons<br class=3D"">being addressed, hence {ja=E2=80=99chuq} =
being translated as =E2=80=9Cdiscuss=E2=80=9D<br class=3D"">because it =
involves people telling each other something.<br =
class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">If he ever said this, it never =
entered the canon. Was this something he said to you personally, or was =
it part of an interview or a published source? I remember in your HolQeD =
interview with him on the topic YOU made this claim to HIM, but he =
didn't say anything about it.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">=3D=3D<br =
class=3D"">WM: Are there any other verbs of speech that you would care =
to<br class=3D""> comment on?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">MO: Are there any other verbs of speech?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">WM: And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person =
addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would be the thing =
you say.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">MO: The speech event.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">WM: I like that term.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">MO: Including a direct quote. I'm telling a story. He "blah, =
blah, blah" {jatlh}.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">-- <br =
class=3D"">SuStel<br class=3D""><a href=3D"http://trimboli.name" =
class=3D"">http://trimboli.name</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br=
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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