[102342] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] KLBC: locative object
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qov@kli.org)
Tue Nov 17 02:38:58 2015
From: <qov@kli.org>
To: "'tlhIngan Hol mailing list'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAMwO7AFmuNXUyngsH3kbKsuNnQinxT=aa2b9vHOg25vd96sAng@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 23:38:43 -0800
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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In violation of =E2=80=98arHa=E2=80=99s mandate, but out of respect and =
admiration for Karen Alessio & Fatairae, who are thinking and talking =
about tlhIngan Hol between themselves, I am answering this question.=20
=20
> Karen and I were spitting at each other, and had a debate on =
locatives.
>
> ravchajDaq bIQong
> bIQong ravchajDaq
> "You sleep on their floor"
=20
The Klingon Dictionary is clear on this point. See the end of section =
6.1 on p. 60. =E2=80=9CAny noun in the sentence indicating something =
other than subject or object comes first, before the object noun. Such =
nouns usually end in a type 5 noun suffix.=E2=80=9D It may help to think =
of the locative noun as being the setting established for the subsequent =
phrase. The order is mandatory.
=20
ravchajDaq bIQong.
>
> Some languages treat locatives as an object, others as an independent. =
Is the order important here? Or is it a theoretical third, that =
explicitly makes the floor the object?
>
> ravchajDaq DaQong
=20
There are a few verbs of motion that take their destination as an =
object, but in general Klingon locations are not objects.=20
=20
Keep talking, keep thinking and keep asking. This is the gold standard =
of what beginner questions should look like: a simple question that =
you=E2=80=99ve thought about and tried to solve on your own, with =
examples that show your care and ability. Plus the spitting. Very =
important.
reH tlhIngan Hol bojatlhjaj!
=20
- Qov =E2=80=98utlh
--
Online Klingon Course free to all KLI members: =
http://www.kli.org/members-only/klcp-prep/
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In violation of =E2=80=98arHa=E2=80=99s mandate, but out of respect =
and admiration for </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Karen =
Alessio & Fatairae, who are thinking and talking about tlhIngan Hol =
between themselves, I am answering this question. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>> </span>Karen and I were spitting at each =
other, and had a debate on locatives.<br><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>></span><br>> ravchajDaq bIQong<br>> =
bIQong ravchajDaq<br>> "You sleep on their =
floor"<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The Klingon Dictionary is clear on this point. =C2=A0See the end of =
section 6.1 on p. 60.=C2=A0 =E2=80=9CAny noun in the sentence indicating =
something other than subject or object comes first, before the object =
noun. Such nouns usually end in a type 5 noun suffix.=E2=80=9D It may =
help to think of the locative noun as being the setting established for =
the subsequent phrase. The order is mandatory.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>ravchajDaq bIQong.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>></span><br><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>> </span>Some languages treat locatives as an =
object, others as an independent. Is the order important here? Or =
is it a theoretical third, that explicitly makes the floor the =
object?<br><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>></span><br><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>> </span>ravchajDaq DaQong<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>There are a few verbs of motion that take their destination as an =
object, but in general Klingon locations are not objects. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Keep talking, keep thinking and keep asking.=C2=A0 This is the gold =
standard of what beginner questions should look like: a simple question =
that you=E2=80=99ve thought about and tried to solve on your own, with =
examples that show your care and ability. =C2=A0Plus the spitting.=C2=A0 =
Very important.<br><br>reH tlhIngan Hol =
bojatlhjaj!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>=C2=A0 - Qov =E2=80=98utlh<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Online Klingon Course free to all KLI members: =
http://www.kli.org/members-only/klcp-prep/<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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