[102187] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the purpose clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Tue Nov 10 14:40:10 2015
In-Reply-To: <5593B987-A837-48B9-9D9B-50DDC8EDA453@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 21:39:56 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> There is no =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D. Okrand says the {-meH} clause must pre=
cede the noun or
verb it modifies. Nothing anywhere suggests otherwise.
thank you for replying, and for the encouragement too !
however this example confuses me :
{jIpaSqu'mo' narghpu' qaSuchmeH 'eb} <<Because I'm very late, the
opportunity to visit you has escaped.>>
why is the {qaSuchmeH 'eb} at the end,instead of the beginning of the
sentence ?
On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
wrote:
> To paraphrase Edison:
>
> bIQaghqanbe=E2=80=99chugh vay' DachenmoHlaHbe'.
>
> Don=E2=80=99t worry about your past mistakes. Each one teaches you someth=
ing.
> Before Edison made his first successful lightbulb, he noted that he had
> learned of more than a hundred materials out of which one cannot make a
> lightbulb.
>
> Mistakes are EXPECTED of you at this stage. You have nothing to apologize
> for. If you weren=E2=80=99t making mistakes, you would not be learning. B=
y daring
> to try (and including mistakes), you progress where more reluctant studen=
ts
> will handicap themselves.
>
> You can=E2=80=99t get good at walking without getting VERY good at FALLIN=
G.
>
> I watched my granddaughter as she very studiously bent as if sitting, the=
n
> fell over, quite intentionally, rolled over to face down, figured out how
> to, by stages, stand up (at one point, looking like a squatting summa
> wrestler before rising to stand). She would then smile broadly to herself
> and squat down and fall over again, as she taught herself how to more
> gracefully get up off the floor without having to be next to walls or
> furniture.
>
> You=E2=80=99ll speak better Klingon if you take her example to heart.
>
> pItlh
> lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
>
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2015, at 11:40 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> thank you all very much for the corrections and suggestions !
>
> I realize than I must be more careful with the letters that must be
> written in upper-case. It was just that I was pressuring myself to find t=
he
> correct way to place the {-meH},that my attention strayed away from writi=
ng
> the letters correctly. I will definitely try to be more careful in the
> future.
> Indeed I referred to the dog using {ghaH} instead of {'oH},and thank you
> all for bringing this to my attention. I must think,trying to find the
> correct way to say things in Klingon. I get confused because I tend to
> think in greek ; in greek <<dog>> is referred to either as a <<he>> or as
> an <<it>>,most commonly as a <<he>>. So indeed I have to be more
> careful,taking into account how things are supposed to be said in tlhInga=
n
> Hol.
> Also I messed up the use of words such as {ngoH},and forgot suffixes etc
> etc. I will definitely study all of your corrections and observations
> taking them into account.
> Good point with regards to whether <<the ferengi>> in english is singular
> or plural ; I thought that I had to put the {-pu'} to express them being
> more than one. Luckily I was corrected.
>
> So,to summarize :
>
> The good : I slowly begin to "feel" how the {-meH} is to be used. Meaning
> that I slowly begin to understand what must go before it,and what must go
> after.
> The bad : All the mistakes I made,which will definitely be the subject of
> a lengthy examination taking place in my mind the next few hours.
>
> thank you all for tractoring me out of the {-mey} nebula ! next on route
> is the "sentences as objects" constellation. If I encounter any linguisti=
c
> anomalies I'll send a distress call.
>
> cpt qunnoQ
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 5:41 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2015 9:37 AM, Will Martin wrote:
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m not sure that {be=E2=80=99 la=E2=80=99} would be interpreted=
as a female commander.
>>> To my eye, it looks more like a woman=E2=80=99s commander, or the comma=
nder of a
>>> woman. In other words, there=E2=80=99s a woman, and she has a commander=
, and you
>>> are saying something about that commander.
>>>
>>
>> A noun-noun construction can be used in any kind of genitive
>> construction. For example, KGT gives us {baS 'In} "metal pot." It's not
>> "metal's pot" or "pot of the metal."
>>
>> So {be' la'} can be used for "woman commander."
>>
>> --
>> SuStel
>> http://trimboli.name
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>> There is no =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D. Okrand says t=
he {-meH} clause must precede the noun or verb it modifies. Nothing anywher=
e suggests otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>thank you for replying, and =
for the encouragement too !<br></div><div><br>however this example confuses=
me :<br>{jIpaSqu'mo' narghpu' qaSuchmeH 'eb} <<Becau=
se I'm very late, the opportunity to visit you has escaped.>>
=09
=09
<br><br></div><div>why is the {qaSuchmeH 'eb} at the end,instead of the=
beginning of the sentence ?<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Will Martin <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div>To paraphrase Edison=
:</div><div><br></div><div>bIQaghqanbe=E2=80=99chugh vay' DachenmoHlaHb=
e'.</div><div><br></div><div>Don=E2=80=99t worry about your past mistak=
es. Each one teaches you something. Before Edison made his first successful=
lightbulb, he noted that he had learned of more than a hundred materials o=
ut of which one cannot make a lightbulb.</div><div><br></div><div>Mistakes =
are EXPECTED of you at this stage. You have nothing to apologize for. If yo=
u weren=E2=80=99t making mistakes, you would not be learning. By daring to =
try (and including mistakes), you progress where more reluctant students wi=
ll handicap themselves.</div><div><br></div><div>You can=E2=80=99t get good=
at walking without getting VERY good at FALLING.</div><div><br></div><div>=
I watched my granddaughter as she very studiously bent as if sitting, then =
fell over, quite intentionally, rolled over to face down, figured out how t=
o, by stages, stand up (at one point, looking like a squatting summa wrestl=
er before rising to stand). She would then smile broadly to herself and squ=
at down and fall over again, as she taught herself how to more gracefully g=
et up off the floor without having to be next to walls or furniture.</div><=
div><br></div><div>You=E2=80=99ll speak better Klingon if you take her exam=
ple to heart.</div><span class=3D""><br><div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvet=
ica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing=
:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div>pItlh</div><div>lojmI=
t tI'wI'nuv</div><div><br></div></span><br>
</div>
<br></span><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On No=
v 10, 2015, at 11:40 AM, qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com=
" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br>thank you all very much for the corrections and suggestions !<=
br><br>I realize than I must be more careful with the letters that must be =
written in upper-case. It was just that I was pressuring myself to find the=
correct way to place the {-meH},that my attention strayed away from writin=
g the letters correctly. I will definitely try to be more careful in the fu=
ture.<br>Indeed I referred to the dog using {ghaH} instead of {'oH},and=
thank you all for bringing this to my attention. I must think,trying to fi=
nd the correct way to say things in Klingon. I get confused because I tend =
to think in greek ; in greek <<dog>> is referred to either as a=
<<he>> or as an <<it>>,most commonly as a <<=
he>>.=C2=A0 So indeed I have to be more careful,taking into account h=
ow things are supposed to be said in tlhIngan Hol.<br>Also I messed up the =
use of words such as {ngoH},and forgot suffixes etc etc. I will definitely =
study all of your corrections and observations taking them into account.<br=
>Good point with regards to whether <<the ferengi>> in english =
is singular or plural ; I thought that I had to put the {-pu'} to expre=
ss them being more than one. Luckily I was corrected.<br><br>So,to summariz=
e :<br><br>The good : I slowly begin to "feel" how the {-meH} is =
to be used. Meaning that I slowly begin to understand what must go before i=
t,and what must go after.<br>The bad : All the mistakes I made,which will d=
efinitely be the subject of a lengthy examination taking place in my mind t=
he next few hours.<br><br>thank you all for tractoring me out of the {-mey}=
nebula ! next on route is the "sentences as objects" constellati=
on. If I encounter any linguistic anomalies I'll send a distress call.<=
br><br>cpt qunnoQ<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 5:41 PM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.=
name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On 11/10=
/2015 9:37 AM, Will Martin wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I=E2=80=99m not sure that {be=E2=80=99 la=E2=80=99} would be interpreted as=
a female commander.<br>
To my eye, it looks more like a woman=E2=80=99s commander, or the commander=
of a<br>
woman. In other words, there=E2=80=99s a woman, and she has a commander, an=
d you<br>
are saying something about that commander.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
A noun-noun construction can be used in any kind of genitive construction. =
For example, KGT gives us {baS 'In} "metal pot." It's not=
"metal's pot" or "pot of the metal."<br>
<br>
So {be' la'} can be used for "woman commander."<span><fon=
t color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://trimboli.name/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http=
://trimboli.name</a></font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mailing lis=
t<br><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol=
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l" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><=
br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>_____________________=
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