[102167] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the purpose clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Tue Nov 10 13:11:00 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 13:10:43 -0500
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKpXYWf5r3m8hs4vb3K=o_jHESYssTG7FHn+yOoi6bg+w@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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There is no =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D. Okrand says the {-meH} clause must =
precede the noun or verb it modifies. Nothing anywhere suggests =
otherwise.
Other Type 9 based dependent clauses can follow the main clause or =
precede it. The speaker or writer has both options. There is no option =
to put {-meH} after the noun or verb it modifies.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 10, 2015, at 1:01 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> I know that in TKD,it says that the purpose clause always precedes =
etc.. but I just want to make sure.
>=20
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:59 PM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com =
<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote:
> luckily,before moving on,I realized something needed further =
clarification..
>=20
> lets consider the following sentences :
>=20
> {Sutmey chenmoHmeH targh luSurgh} <<they skinned the targh in order to =
make clothes>>
> {la' luQeHmoHmeH Duj luQaw=E2=80=99} <<they destroyed the vessel to =
anger the commander>>
>=20
> I noticed that the {-meH} word comes at the beginning of the sentence =
(or at least after the first word)
> Can the sentences above be formulated as :
>=20
> {targh luSurgh Sutmey chenmoHmeH}
> {Duj luQaw=E2=80=99 la' luQeHmoHmeH} ?
>=20
> as it seems the "sentences as objects" constellation will have to =
wait..
>=20
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:06 PM, DloraH <seruq@bellsouth.net =
<mailto:seruq@bellsouth.net>> wrote:
> > you took away my shoes in order to delay me
> > chomImmeH waqmeywIj Dange'
> >
> >
> > If someone has their issues of HolQeD handy, I have a note in
> > my dictionary about volume 8, number 4, page 11 relating to
> > the verb {mIm}. I apparently interpreted that to mean the
> > verb did not take an object. Until I can read that passage,
> > however, I can't see a reason to correct this one.
>=20
> The page is giving the Klingon from ST V.
>=20
> tlh'a' HoD, nIm-buS wej yI-ghoS. vub-pu' jon-ta' HeS-wI'. wa' vub =
ghaH tlhI-ngan ghar-wI'-'e'.
> wa' ghaH te-ra'-ngan-'e'. mIm-Qo'. DaH He-raj yI-choH. batlh =
tlhI-ngan Segh yI-Hub. Qap-la'.
>=20
> "Captain Klaa, proceed to Nimbus III. A criminal has succeeded in =
taking hostages. One hostage is
> a Klingon diplomat. One is a Terran. One is a Romulan. Do not =
delay. Alter your course now.
> Defend the Klingon race with honor. Success."
>=20
> (The Klingon did not include any mention of the Romulan hostage.)
>=20
>=20
> - DloraH
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
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<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>=20
>=20
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">There is no =E2=80=9Cbut=E2=80=9D. Okrand =
says the {-meH} clause must precede the noun or verb it modifies. =
Nothing anywhere suggests otherwise.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Other Type 9 based dependent clauses =
can follow the main clause or precede it. The speaker or writer has both =
options. There is no option to put {-meH} after the noun or verb it =
modifies.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 10, 2015, at 1:01 PM, qunnoQ HoD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">I know that in TKD,it says that the purpose =
clause always precedes etc.. but I just want to make sure.<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:59 PM, qunnoQ HoD <span =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">luckily,before moving on,I realized something needed further =
clarification..<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>lets consider the =
following sentences :<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">{<span =
class=3D"">Sutmey chenmoHmeH targh luSurgh}</span><span class=3D""> =
<<they skinned the targh in order to make clothes>><br =
class=3D"">{</span>la' luQeHmoHmeH Duj luQaw=E2=80=99} <<<span =
class=3D"">they destroyed the vessel to anger the commander>><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></span></div><span class=3D"">I noticed that =
the {-meH} word comes at the beginning of the sentence (or at least =
after the first word)<br class=3D""></span></div><span class=3D"">Can =
the sentences above be formulated as :<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">{</span><span class=3D"">targh luSurgh </span><span =
class=3D"">Sutmey chenmoHmeH}<br class=3D"">{</span>Duj luQaw=E2=80=99 =
la' luQeHmoHmeH} ?<br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>as it seems the =
"sentences as objects" constellation will have to wait..<br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, =
Nov 10, 2015 at 7:06 PM, DloraH <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a =
href=3D"mailto:seruq@bellsouth.net" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">seruq@bellsouth.net</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span =
class=3D"">> you took away my shoes in =
order to delay me<br class=3D"">
> chomImmeH waqmeywIj Dange'<br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
><br class=3D"">
> If someone has their issues of HolQeD handy, I have a note in<br =
class=3D"">
> my dictionary about volume 8, number 4, page 11 relating to<br =
class=3D"">
> the verb {mIm}. I apparently interpreted that to mean the<br =
class=3D"">
> verb did not take an object. Until I can read that passage,<br =
class=3D"">
> however, I can't see a reason to correct this one.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
</span>The page is giving the Klingon from ST V.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
tlh'a' HoD, nIm-buS wej yI-ghoS. vub-pu' jon-ta' HeS-wI'. =
wa' vub ghaH tlhI-ngan ghar-wI'-'e'.<br class=3D"">
wa' ghaH te-ra'-ngan-'e'. mIm-Qo'. DaH He-raj yI-choH. =
batlh tlhI-ngan Segh yI-Hub. Qap-la'.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
"Captain Klaa, proceed to Nimbus III. A criminal has succeeded in =
taking hostages. One hostage is<br class=3D"">
a Klingon diplomat. One is a Terran. One is a Romulan. =
Do not delay. Alter your course now.<br class=3D"">
Defend the Klingon race with honor. Success."<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
(The Klingon did not include any mention of the Romulan hostage.)<br =
class=3D"">
<span class=3D""><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
- DloraH<br class=3D"">
</font></span><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
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