[102133] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Tue Nov 10 00:37:20 2015
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>, "tlhingan-hol@kli.org"
<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 05:36:43 +0000
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W23B9D510D062D8B24DD066AA140@phx.gbl>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> My first instinct says no, but then it makes me think of those times
> where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp roughly equivalent to
> "at first", and though we have no canon for it [...]
We do, actually, from paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 18):
bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor
(Don't have the English translation handy, but it's something like "At firs=
t, Molor taunts Kahless.")
It is worth noting, however, that paq'batlh is poetic by nature.
It is a pet theory of mine that bI'reS is actually an old word for "beginni=
ng", which survives in modern (that is, future) tlhIngan Hol through opera.
However, that is speculation upon speculation, wrapped in speculation (made=
from 100% organic speculation).
________________________________
From: Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 06:02
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?
ghItlhpu' naHQun, jatlh:
> How would y'all use {qa'vam}?
> Can I use it as a time stamp?
Ooo. That's a fascinating question. My first instinct says no, but then it =
makes me think of those times where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp=
roughly equivalent to "at first", and though we have no canon for it, I do=
like that usage. Similarly, if {qa'vam} appears in the right place syntact=
ically, I guess there's no reason it couldn't be interpreted as "in the beg=
inning" (in the biblical sense) or "at the birth of the universe". I don't =
know how many contexts you could use it in - it's a pretty narrow meaning -=
but by the same token, {qaStaHvIS qa'vam} doesn't sound quite right to me =
either.
I suppose it depends how long you want to draw your bow. It's questionable =
but interesting.
QeS 'utlh
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<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">> My first instinct says no, but then it makes me think of t=
hose times</span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">> where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp roughly equi=
valent to</span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">> "at first", and though we have no canon for it [=
...]</span></span></font></p>
<p><br>
<font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span dir=
=3D"ltr"></span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">We do, actually, from paq'batlh (paq'raD, Canto 18):</span></sp=
an></font></p>
<p><br>
<font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span dir=
=3D"ltr"></span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">bI'reS qeylIS vaq molor</span></span></font></p>
<p><br>
<font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span dir=
=3D"ltr"></span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">(Don't have the English translation handy, but it's something l=
ike "At first, Molor taunts Kahless.")<br>
<br>
It is worth noting, however, that paq'batlh is poetic by nature.</span></sp=
an></font></p>
<p><br>
<font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span dir=
=3D"ltr"></span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">It is a pet theory of mine that bI'reS is actually an old word =
for "beginning", which survives in modern (that is, future) tlhIn=
gan Hol through opera.</span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr">However, that is speculation upon speculation, wrapped in specu=
lation (made from 100% organic speculation).</span></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;"><span =
dir=3D"ltr"></span></span></font><br>
</p>
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<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> Rohan Fenwick <qe=
slagh@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 10, 2015 06:02<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qa'vam?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' naHQun, jatlh:<br>
> How would y'all use {qa'vam}?
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>> Can I use it as a time stamp?<br>
<br>
Ooo. That's a fascinating question. My first instinct says no, but then it =
makes me think of those times where I've seen {bI'reS} used as a time stamp=
roughly equivalent to "at first", and though we have no canon fo=
r it, I do like that usage. Similarly, if
{qa'vam} appears in the right place syntactically, I guess there's no reas=
on it couldn't be interpreted as "in the beginning" (in the bibli=
cal sense) or "at the birth of the universe". I don't know how ma=
ny contexts you could use it in - it's a pretty narrow
meaning - but by the same token, {qaStaHvIS qa'vam} doesn't sound quite ri=
ght to me either.<br>
<br>
I suppose it depends how long you want to draw your bow. It's questionable =
but interesting.<br>
<br>
QeS 'utlh<br>
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