[102106] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] How Many grammarians?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Holt)
Mon Nov 9 15:59:50 2015
From: David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 20:59:32 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CALN+49YC=ZNmORhrNyh8j3CbOEuXL1uuh3eQs0ypCbzVcAsPkw@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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In addition, when the qep'a' has held a "Grammarian's Round Table" all pres=
ent former BGs have been invited. Also, when the KLI has held contests whi=
ch would be judged by Grammarians, some former BGs have been asked to help.=
I think, though never formally stated anywhere, there are three paths to =
being called, "Grammarian". 1) Be one of the orignally designated KLI gram=
marians (no longer an active path). 2) Take the KLCP Level 4 (never yet re=
quested). 3) Complete a term as BG (this is where the majority of our Gram=
marians come from).
Jeremy
________________________________
From: d'Armond Speers, Ph.D. <speersd@georgetown.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 2:15 PM
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] How Many grammarians?
I can shed some light on that. The original idea with the "Level IV - Gram=
marian" level for KLCP was to address an early question (early-to-mid 1990s=
), how does one become a "grammarian"? There were two list members who wer=
e recognized as grammarians (Seqram and Qanqor), and as the community grew =
questions arose about how to earn such a distinction. The Level IV part of=
the exam was intended to address that question. The challenge is, how do =
you write a written test that really demonstrates the level of fluency we w=
ere targeting? In the KLCP documentation I described Level IV as a group i=
nterview, with topics and evaluation of the results to be solely at the dis=
cretion of the interviewers, who would themselves be grammarians. To my kn=
owledge, we have never actually followed this process for the Level IV KLCP=
. While this was all developing, too, Lawrence had these beautiful pins ma=
de up for the first 3 levels of the test, and there's the significance of t=
he number "3" to recognize, so in practice we've just stuck with the three =
levels.
This is all separate from KLBC. The "beginner's grammarian" is specificall=
y intended to be someone who is also still learning, but has reached a suff=
icient state of skill and interest to take the post. Teaching is a great w=
ay to learn. (This was never tied to KLCP, so there is no requirement to p=
ass any level of KLCP to serve as BG. But as a rough yardstick, I would th=
ink a successful BG would be at the Level I or II of KLCP.) Once retired f=
rom the post, they become an {'utlh}, or respected, retired officer. Over =
time this has generalized from "Former Beginner's Grammarian" to just "Gram=
marian", and thus serving a tour as BG has become a de facto secondary path=
to grammarian status. Which seems appropriate to me, as the whole context=
for the original "grammarian" question was someone on the mailing list who=
is respected and experienced enough with the language to offer guidance an=
d insight when questions arise, and KLBC seems just as valid as KLCP to att=
ain that recognition (especially since we don't do KLCP Level IV).
-- Holtej 'utlh
On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:26 PM John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com<mailto:=
cartweel@gmail.com>> wrote:
For what it's worth, my understanding of the title "grammarian" has so far =
revolved around those who had completed all levels of the certification cou=
rse. This might be a product of the Beginner's Grammarian position being de=
funct during my few years in the community. Then again the course guideline=
s do list a *grammarian*-level exam, level 4.
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org<mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<p>In addition, when the qep'a' has held a "Grammarian's Round Table&q=
uot; all present former BGs have been invited. Also, when the KL=
I has held contests which would be judged by Grammarians, some former =
BGs have been asked to help. I think, though never formally
stated anywhere, there are three paths to being called, "Grammarian&q=
uot;. 1) Be one of the orignally designated KLI grammarians (no longe=
r an active path). 2) Take the KLCP Level 4 (never yet requested). &n=
bsp;3) Complete a term as BG (this is where the majority
of our Grammarians come from). </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Jeremy</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co=
lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> d'Armond Speers, Ph.D=
. <speersd@georgetown.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 9, 2015 2:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] How Many grammarians?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I can shed some light on that. The original idea wit=
h the "Level IV - Grammarian" level for KLCP was to address an ea=
rly question (early-to-mid 1990s), how does one become a "grammarian&q=
uot;? There were two list members who were recognized as grammarians
(Seqram and Qanqor), and as the community grew questions arose about how t=
o earn such a distinction. The Level IV part of the exam was intended=
to address that question. The challenge is, how do you write a writt=
en test that really demonstrates the level
of fluency we were targeting? In the KLCP documentation I described =
Level IV as a group interview, with topics and evaluation of the results to=
be solely at the discretion of the interviewers, who would themselves be g=
rammarians. To my knowledge, we have
never actually followed this process for the Level IV KLCP. While th=
is was all developing, too, Lawrence had these beautiful pins made up for t=
he first 3 levels of the test, and there's the significance of the number &=
quot;3" to recognize, so in practice we've
just stuck with the three levels.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is all separate from KLBC. The "beginner's grammarian&=
quot; is specifically intended to be someone who is also still learning, bu=
t has reached a sufficient state of skill and interest to take the post.&nb=
sp; Teaching is a great way to learn. (This was never
tied to KLCP, so there is no requirement to pass any level of KLCP to serv=
e as BG. But as a rough yardstick, I would think a successful BG woul=
d be at the Level I or II of KLCP.) Once retired from the post, they =
become an {'utlh}, or respected, retired officer.
Over time this has generalized from "Former Beginner's Grammarian&quo=
t; to just "Grammarian", and thus serving a tour as BG has become=
a de facto secondary path to grammarian status. Which seems appropri=
ate to me, as the whole context for the original "grammarian"
question was someone on the mailing list who is respected and experienced =
enough with the language to offer guidance and insight when questions arise=
, and KLBC seems just as valid as KLCP to attain that recognition (especial=
ly since we don't do KLCP Level
IV). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-- Holtej 'utlh</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:26 PM John R. Harness <<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:cartweel@gmail.com">cartweel@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1=
px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">For what it's worth, my understanding of the title "g=
rammarian" has so far revolved around those who had completed all leve=
ls of the certification course. This might be a product of the Beginner's G=
rammarian position being defunct during my few
years in the community. Then again the course guidelines do list a *gramma=
rian*-level exam, level 4.</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
</blockquote>
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