[102087] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Concerning the purpose clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Mon Nov 9 12:27:34 2015
In-Reply-To: <5640C7B0.9050300@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 18:27:17 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Actually {-meH} isn't that complex. Its meaning really is to state purpose
and it can modify sentences or single nouns. It's position is before (or
after) the sentence if it modifies a sentence. Or before the noun, if it
modifies a noun.
If it modifies a sentence, the structure is like this:
a) [X-meH] [B verb A] =3D "A verbs B in order to X."
Usually the subject of the subordinate clause [X-meH] is also the subject
of the main clause, here: A. But not necessarily. We could have a sentence
like this:
b) [D verb-meH C], [B verb A] =3D "A verbs B, so that C may verb D."
I would put a comma in such a sentence to avoid confusion between the two
nouns C and B. But as I said, they are very very seldom.
A real-life ad hoc example for b) is:
[tlhIngan Hol luHaDmeH HaDwI'pu'lI'], ['ampaS 'elnIS ghojmoHwI'].
=3D "The teach must enter the academy, so that his students may study Kling=
on.
Usually it's much easier, though, like in a), but maybe with an object,
e.g.:
[tlhIngan Hol vIHaDmeH] [paqvam vIje'nIS].
=3D "I mut buy this book in order to learn Klingon.
Even though the subject is not stated in the meH-clause, it has to be
marked on the verb.
Now, if the meH-clause modifies a noun, it's usually even easier, because
it simply has no verb prefix, it's just:
c) [X-meH] [N] =3D "an N for X-ing"
And we had a lot of real life examples before, here's another one:
[HaDmeH paq]
=3D "study book" (a book for studying)
When you are very confused about a sentence and cannot really figure out
the structure, try reading it from the end. That works pretty well. Maybe
that helps you.
I have probably just repeated what others and what TKD said with my own
words, but often a more formular approach helps in understanding. Not sure
if I was successful, though. ;)
- Andr=C3=A9
2015-11-09 17:20 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>:
> On 11/9/2015 11:14 AM, qunnoQ HoD wrote:
>
>> the only way this can be fixed,is for me to fire thrusters,so that my
>> position will be seen and then someone hopefully fire a tractor
>> beam,thus pulling me out of this jay' nebula..
>>
>
> maj. nabvam nIv law' Hoch nIv puS. QInvam DangeHpu'pa' nab nIb vIchup 'e'
> vIHech.
>
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><di=
v><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Actually {-meH} isn't that complex=
. Its meaning really is to state purpose and it can modify sentences or sin=
gle nouns. It's position is before (or after) the sentence if it modifi=
es a sentence. Or before the noun, if it modifies a noun.<br><br></div>If i=
t modifies a sentence, the structure is like this:<br></div>a) [X-meH] [B v=
erb A] =3D "A verbs B in order to X."<br></div>Usually the subjec=
t of the subordinate clause [X-meH] is also the subject of the main clause,=
here: A. But not necessarily. We could have a sentence like this:<br></div=
>b) [D verb-meH C], [B verb A] =3D "A verbs B, so that C may verb D.&q=
uot;<br></div>I would put a comma in such a sentence to avoid confusion bet=
ween the two nouns C and B. But as I said, they are very very seldom.<br><b=
r></div>A real-life ad hoc example for b) is:<br></div>[tlhIngan Hol luHaDm=
eH HaDwI'pu'lI'], ['ampaS 'elnIS ghojmoHwI'].<br></=
div>=3D "The teach must enter the academy, so that his students may st=
udy Klingon.<br><br></div>Usually it's much easier, though, like in a),=
but maybe with an object, e.g.:<br></div>[tlhIngan Hol vIHaDmeH] [paqvam v=
Ije'nIS].<br></div>=3D "I mut buy this book in order to learn Klin=
gon.<br><br></div>Even though the subject is not stated in the meH-clause, =
it has to be marked on the verb.<br><br></div>Now, if the meH-clause modifi=
es a noun, it's usually even easier, because it simply has no verb pref=
ix, it's just:<br></div>c) [X-meH] [N] =3D "an N for X-ing"<b=
r><br></div>And we had a lot of real life examples before, here's anoth=
er one:<br></div>[HaDmeH paq]<br></div>=3D "study book" (a book f=
or studying)<br><br></div>When you are very confused about a sentence and c=
annot really figure out the structure, try reading it from the end. That wo=
rks pretty well. Maybe that helps you.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I have =
probably just repeated what others and what TKD said with my own words, but=
often a more formular approach helps in understanding. Not sure if I was s=
uccessful, though. ;)<br><br></div><div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-11-09 17:20 GMT+01:=
00 SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" tar=
get=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On 11/9/2015 11:14 AM, qunnoQ HoD wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the only way this can be fixed,is for me to fire thrusters,so that my<br>
position will be seen and then someone hopefully fire a tractor<br>
beam,thus pulling me out of this jay' nebula..<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
maj. nabvam nIv law' Hoch nIv puS. QInvam DangeHpu'pa' nab nIb =
vIchup 'e' vIHech.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
SuStel<br>
<a href=3D"http://trimboli.name" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//trimboli.name</a><br>
<br>
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a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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