[101960] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] povjajwIj
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Fri Nov 6 00:28:22 2015
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W1341807A4A46B38631C8D3AA280@phx.gbl>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 07:28:05 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> I just wanted to let qunnoQ know that {juHDaq vIchegh} is, though
counterintuitive on its face, also a perfectly fine option.
thank you very much for the clarification !
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ghItlhpu' De'vID, jatlh:
> > {juH vIchegh} 'e' vImaS. There's some contradiction in the canon about
> > how to specify the destination of {chegh}. But this was clarified in
> > this email:
> > http://klingonska.org/canon/1999-07-19b-email.txt
> > {juHDaq jIchegh} is ambiguous and can mean either "I return home" or
> > "I return at home (I return somewhere, while inside my house)".
>
> vIjangpu' jIH, jIjatlh:
> > Not quite. {juHDaq jIchegh} isn't actually ambiguous, and means only the
> > latter: "I return, while inside my house". For "I return home" (that is,
> "I
> > return *to* the house"), the sentence must actually be either {juH
> vIchegh}
> > or {juHDaq vIchegh}, in both instances with the pronominal prefix {vI-}.
> > With verbs of motion like {chegh} and {jaH} and {'el}, the pronominal
> prefix
> > is the important part in disambiguating the meaning (use of the
> superfluous
> > {-Daq} is a marked but grammatical variant in the {vIchegh} form).
>
> jang je De'vID, jatlh:
> > According to that article, you're right. But as I said, there's some
> > contradiction in the canon.
> > In Power Klingon, we have {ghorgh pa'wIjDaq jIchegh?} (not {vIchegh})
> > and {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?} (not {wIjaH}). Maybe others will
> > be able to come up with other examples from canon.
>
> The first is from CK, but yes, a good point well taken.
>
> The concern for me here is more that we have an explicit explanation from
> Marc of what the rule is. If that exists, I feel we should treat that as
> the prescriptive model to follow when composing our own Klingon, and since
> qunnoQ is a relative beginner (all respect intended, qunnoQ!), now's the
> time to work on best practice. We know canon doesn't always quite follow
> the prescriptive rules - {'e' reH lunIDtaH} from S26 is a perfect example
> of that. The other thing on my mind was I just wanted to let qunnoQ know
> that {juHDaq vIchegh} is, though counterintuitive on its face, also a
> perfectly fine option.
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>> I just wanted to let qunnoQ know that {juHDaq vI=
chegh} is, though counterintuitive on its face, also a perfectly fine optio=
n.<br><br></div>thank you very much for the clarification !<br></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at =
6:47 AM, Rohan Fenwick <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotm=
ail.com" target=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' De'vID, jatlh:<span class=3D""><br>=
> {juH vIchegh} 'e' vImaS. There's some contradiction in the=
canon about<br></span><div><span class=3D"">> how to specify the destin=
ation of {chegh}. But this was clarified in<br>> this email:<br>> <a =
href=3D"http://klingonska.org/canon/1999-07-19b-email.txt" target=3D"_blank=
">http://klingonska.org/canon/1999-07-19b-email.txt</a><br>> {juHDaq jIc=
hegh} is ambiguous and can mean either "I return home" or<br>>=
"I return at home (I return somewhere, while inside my house)".<=
br><br></span>vIjangpu' jIH, jIjatlh:<span class=3D""><br>> Not quit=
e. {juHDaq jIchegh} isn't actually ambiguous, and means only the<br>>=
; latter: "I return, while inside my house". For "I return h=
ome" (that is, "I<br>> return *to* the house"), the sente=
nce must actually be either {juH vIchegh}<br>> or {juHDaq vIchegh}, in b=
oth instances with the pronominal prefix {vI-}.<br>> With verbs of motio=
n like {chegh} and {jaH} and {'el}, the pronominal prefix<br>> is th=
e important part in disambiguating the meaning (use of the superfluous<br>&=
gt; {-Daq} is a marked but grammatical variant in the {vIchegh} form).<br><=
br></span>jang je De'vID, jatlh:<span class=3D""><br>> According to =
that article, you're right. But as I said, there's some<br>> con=
tradiction in the canon.<br>> In Power Klingon, we have {ghorgh pa'w=
IjDaq jIchegh?} (not {vIchegh})<br>> and {naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq=
majaHlaH'a'?} (not {wIjaH}). Maybe others will<br>> be able to =
come up with other examples from canon.<br><br></span>The first is from CK,=
but yes, a good point well taken.<br><br>The concern for me here is more t=
hat we have an explicit explanation from Marc of what the rule is. If that =
exists, I feel we should treat that as the prescriptive model to follow whe=
n composing our own Klingon, and since qunnoQ is a relative beginner (all r=
espect intended, qunnoQ!), now's the time to work on best practice. We =
know canon doesn't always quite follow the prescriptive rules - {'e=
' reH lunIDtaH} from S26 is a perfect example of that. The other thing =
on my mind was I just wanted to let qunnoQ know that {juHDaq vIchegh} is, t=
hough counterintuitive on its face, also a perfectly fine option.<br><br>Qe=
S 'utlh<br></div> </div></div>
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a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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