[101943] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The sleeping dog
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Thu Nov 5 10:52:47 2015
In-Reply-To: <1446736956669.34105@kth.se>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 17:52:32 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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ok,i understand now..
in the dog story,i meant the {ngugh} ; but here is what happened..
when i write in english, i think in greek and translate in english
when i try to write in klingon,i think in greek too and try to translate in
klingon.
i don't know if this will make sense.. when i wrote the dog story,since i
was thinking in greek i didn't realize the difference between {ghiq} and
{ngugh}
but -and this is the strange thing- if i was translating the same story
from greek to english,i would have taken into account the differences
between <<subsequently>> and <<at that time>>.
when i wrote the sentence in english though,even though it was written in
english my mind was thinking in greek trying to translate to klingon..
all this confuses me too..
anyway,it is really interesting to see how our native languages affect the
way we think and translate,depending on the language we're trying to
translate into..
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
> An illustration of the difference between {ghIq] and {ngugh}:
>
> {jISop. ghIq jIQong.}
>
> = "I eat. Then I sleep."
>
>
> This specifies that first I eat, and then I sleep. In a way, {ghIq} could
> be translated as "immediately afterwards".
>
>
> {wa'leS SaghomlaHbe'. ngugh jIvumnIS.}
> = "I can't meet y'all tomorrow. I'll need to work then."
>
>
> {cha'leS qatlh bIDach?]
>
> {ngugh jIrop.}
>
> = "Why were you absent yesterday?
>
> "I was sick then."
>
>
> To put it another way: {ngugh} is the time equivalent of {pa'} ("there").
>
>
> nuqDaq? pa'! ("Where? There?")
>
> ghorgh? ngugh! ("When? Then!")
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2015 16:11
> *To:* tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The sleeping dog
>
> > Note that Klingon has two words for "then": {ghIq} (subsequently) > and
> {ngugh} (at that time). Did you use the one you meant?
>
> this may sound strange,but in greek one would use the exact same word for
> <<subsequently>> and <<at that time>> too. So as strange as this may sound,
> i can't answer your question ! in my mind both <<subsequently>> and <<at
> that time>> are identical..
> this is very interesting indeed. people from different countries learning
> the same language,still perceiving it differently due to their own native
> linguistic backgrounds !
>
> thank you all very much,for taking the time to reply. i will study your
> comments/observations very carefully,and try to improve.
>
> cpt. qunnoQ
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ghItlhpu' qunnoQ, jatlh:
>> > {ngugh,ghab tun gho tut,HaDIbaH,vIchuH 'ej toD'egh} then i threw the
>> sausage
>> > at the dog and i saved myself.
>>
>> Watch your spelling: the word for "meat" is {Ha'DIbaH}, with the qaghwI'
>> (apostrophe) at the end of the first syllable.
>>
>> jang De'vID, jatlh:
>> > I think once you have established {ghab tun gho tut}, you can refer to
>> > it later in that context as simply {tut} if it is unambiguous. But
>> > that's a matter of style.
>>
>> Agreed, though stylistically I'd have referred to it rather as {Ha'DIbaH}
>> from there on out. In this context the fact that it's a chunk of meat is
>> probably more important to the narrative than the fact that it's columnar
>> in shape.
>>
>> qunnoQ, lutlIj DaQIjtaHvIS vIyajlaH je jIH. majQa'!
>>
>> QeS 'utlh
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>ok,i understand now..<br><br=
></div>in the dog story,i meant the {ngugh} ; but here is what happened..<b=
r><br></div>when i write in english, i think in greek and translate in engl=
ish<br></div>when i try to write in klingon,i think in greek too and try to=
translate in klingon.<br><br></div>i don't know if this will make sens=
e.. when i wrote the dog story,since i was thinking in greek i didn't r=
ealize the difference between {ghiq} and {ngugh}<br></div>but -and this is =
the strange thing- if i was translating the same story from greek to englis=
h,i would have taken into account the differences between <<subsequen=
tly>> and <<at that time>>.<br></div><div>when i wrote th=
e sentence in english though,even though it was written in english my mind =
was thinking in greek trying to translate to klingon..<br><br></div><div>al=
l this confuses me too..<br></div><div><br></div>anyway,it is really intere=
sting to see how our native languages affect the way we think and translate=
,depending on the language we're trying to translate into..<br></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 5, 2015=
at 5:22 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:felix=
m@kth.se" target=3D"_blank">felixm@kth.se</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ff=
ffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p>An illustration of the difference between {ghIq] and {ngugh}:<br>
<br>
{jISop. ghIq jIQong.}</p>
<p>=3D "I eat. Then I sleep."</p>
<p><br>
This specifies that first I eat, and then I sleep. In a way, {ghIq} could b=
e translated as "immediately afterwards".<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{wa'leS SaghomlaHbe'. ngugh jIvumnIS.}<br>
=3D "I can't=C2=A0 meet y'all tomorrow. I'll need to work =
then."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>{cha'leS qatlh bIDach?]</p>
<p>{ngugh jIrop.}</p>
<p>=3D "Why were you absent yesterday?</p>
<p>"I was sick then."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>To put it another way: {ngugh} is the time equivalent of {pa'} (&quo=
t;there").</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>nuqDaq? pa'! ("Where? There?")</p>
<p>ghorgh? ngugh! ("When? Then!")</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33)">
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif=
" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> qunnoQ HoD <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 5, 2015 16:11<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhing=
an-hol@kli.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The sleeping dog</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">> Note that Klingon has two words for "then":=
{ghIq} (subsequently) > and {ngugh} (at that time). Did you use the one=
you meant?<br>
<br>
this may sound strange,but in greek one would use the exact same word for &=
lt;<subsequently>> and <<at that time>> too. So as str=
ange as this may sound, i can't answer your question ! in my mind both =
<<subsequently>> and <<at that time>> are identical=
..<br>
this is very interesting indeed. people from different countries learning t=
he same language,still perceiving it differently due to their own native li=
nguistic backgrounds !<br>
<br>
thank you all very much,for taking the time to reply. i will study your com=
ments/observations very carefully,and try to improve.<br>
<br>
cpt. qunnoQ<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Rohan Fenwick <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
<<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank">qeslagh@hotmai=
l.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' qunnoQ, jatlh:<span><br>
> {ngugh,ghab tun gho tut,HaDIbaH,vIchuH 'ej toD'egh} then i thr=
ew the sausage<br>
</span>
<div><span>> at the dog and i saved myself.<br>
<br>
</span>Watch your spelling: the word for "meat" is {Ha'DIbaH}=
, with the qaghwI' (apostrophe) at the end of the first syllable.<br>
<br>
jang De'vID, jatlh:<span><br>
> I think once you have established {ghab tun gho tut}, you can refer to=
<br>
> it later in that context as simply {tut} if it is unambiguous. But<br>
> that's a matter of style.<br>
<br>
</span>Agreed, though stylistically I'd have referred to it rather as {=
Ha'DIbaH} from there on out. In this context the fact that it's a c=
hunk of meat is probably more important to the narrative than the fact that=
it's columnar in shape.<br>
<br>
qunnoQ, lutlIj DaQIjtaHvIS vIyajlaH je jIH. majQa'!<br>
<br>
QeS 'utlh<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank">Tlhingan-hol@kli.=
org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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