[101746] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] thIngan Hol yejHaD Degh qun
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Sat Oct 31 11:24:58 2015
In-Reply-To: <CABDLMbUhRCpe0+RRQ1-L+ycqYP4FPFjxYmocoZ-pxeJyh0Gb+A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2015 17:24:43 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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thanks for the advice !
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller <esperantist@gmail.=
com> wrote:
> Don't worry, qunnoQ, you are still a beginner, but I found your attempt
> surprisingly good, you're definitely on the right track to mastering the
> warrior's tongue!
>
> A few tips, though:
> * {qaStaHvIS x} literally means "while x was/is/will be happening", and i=
s
> used for more complicated time stamps. So usually it just means "during x=
"
> or "when x happened"
>
> * Klingon has some compound words like HolQeD (languagescience, i.e.
> linguistics), but most often when you see something attached to the end o=
f
> a word that you've identified, it is probably a suffix. When I was a
> beginner, I always referred to the alphabetical list of affixes in the en=
d
> of TKD ('The Klingon Dictionary', I'm sure you know by now), that helped =
a
> lot, and after a while I didn't need to do that anymore. :) So, where you
> identified "to farm" and saw that it didn't make any sense, you should ha=
ve
> identified it as a suffix. De'vID already gave you the meaning.
>
> * also always keep in mind the word order of Klingon: OVS, with anything
> adverbial coming at the front and the verb always agreeing with the subje=
ct
> and the object. Modifying "Adjectives" (really actually verbs) follow the
> nouns, but modifying nouns (as in N N constructions) as well as numbers
> precede them. Keeping that in mind immensely helps deciphering Klingon an=
d
> writing in it oneself.
>
> * translation attempts aren't in vain, it not only helps you remember the
> vocabulary, but also to see how experiences speakers use the language. Yo=
u
> might have come across problems that you couldn't solve, e.g. I was
> perplexed about the lack of a word for "with" and "without" back in the
> days when I started, and I tried to misuse suffixes for that... but then =
I
> read some Klingon text and tried to see how it actually worked and found
> out how. That was very helpful.
>
> Not bad! Not bad at all! :)
> - Andr=C3=A9
> On Oct 31, 2015 10:40, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 31 October 2015 at 09:15, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > Qo=E2=80=99. tlhIngan Hol=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 bopbe=E2=80=99. tlhInga=
n Hol yejHaD Degh neH bop.
>>> yImugh SoH =E2=80=98ej bIQaghchugh nIQaH latlhpu=E2=80=99
>>> no. this does not concern the klingon language. it concerns the KLI
>>> symbol. you must translate it,and if you make mistakes they will help y=
ou
>>> another one (?).
>>>
>>
>> In {nIQaH latlhpu'}, the subject of {nIQaH} is {latlhpu'}.
>>
>>
>>> > jIjanglaH HolQeD veywIj vInuD.
>>> to be able to reply i examined and farmed my HolQeD package (?!?!?!) (i
>>> laughed so hard that tears came out of my eyes..)
>>>
>>
>> {-wIj} is a suffix here, not the verb {wIj}.
>>
>>
>>> > tera=E2=80=99 DIS wa=E2=80=99SaD Hutvatlh HutmaH jav qep=E2=80=99a=E2=
=80=99Daq Degh chu=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang
>>> =E2=80=98angghal.
>>> earth years one thousand nine hundred nine ten (i guess 1990) at the
>>> sixth qep'a' the new symbol was newly jealously revealed
>>>
>>
>> {'angghal} is a name. It's the Klingon name of Lawrence Schoen, KLI
>> director.
>>
>>
>>> > qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 jeyDaq Degh Deq lo=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99, vaj qa=
StaHvIS qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 much SeQ ta=E2=80=99law=E2=80=99
>>> =E2=80=98angghal.
>>> at that qep'a the prior symbol was defeated, so it was occuring to
>>> happen at the qep'a' formal presentation by many was accomplished to be
>>> jealously revealed (i feel like an idiot)
>>>
>>
>> {jey} is a noun, not the verb {jey}.
>>
>> Don't feel like an idiot. Nobody told you that {'angghal} is a name, and
>> your attempts to parse it as a word are misleading you.
>>
>>
>>> > chaq ngugh maHvaD Degh cha=E2=80=99bogh HumwI=E2=80=99mey lunoblu=E2=
=80=99 je.
>>> perhaps at that time for us the symbol which was displayed was made
>>> sticky they gave it also
>>>
>>
>> {HumwI'} =3D sticker
>>
>>
>>> > QonoSwIj tIQDaq Deghmey Sar lulo=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99bogh vImuch.
>>> my journal one of the various ancient symbols which they used and they
>>> presented
>>>
>>
>> {tIQ} applies to {QonoS} not to {Degh} here. The journal Qov is referrin=
g
>> to is her blog.
>>
>> --
>> De'vID
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">thanks for the advice !<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 2:06 PM, Andr=C3=
=A9 M=C3=BCller <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:esperantist@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">esperantist@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Don't worry, qunnoQ, you are st=
ill a beginner, but I found your attempt surprisingly good, you're defi=
nitely on the right track to mastering the warrior's tongue!</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">A few tips, though:<br>
* {qaStaHvIS x} literally means "while x was/is/will be happening"=
;, and is used for more complicated time stamps. So usually it just means &=
quot;during x" or "when x happened"</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* Klingon has some compound words like HolQeD (languagescien=
ce, i.e. linguistics), but most often when you see something attached to th=
e end of a word that you've identified, it is probably a suffix. When I=
was a beginner, I always referred to the alphabetical list of affixes in t=
he end of TKD ('The Klingon Dictionary', I'm sure you know by n=
ow), that helped a lot, and after a while I didn't need to do that anym=
ore. :) So, where you identified "to farm" and saw that it didn&#=
39;t make any sense, you should have identified it as a suffix. De'vID =
already gave you the meaning.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* also always keep in mind the word order of Klingon: OVS, w=
ith anything adverbial coming at the front and the verb always agreeing wit=
h the subject and the object. Modifying "Adjectives" (really actu=
ally verbs) follow the nouns, but modifying nouns (as in N N constructions)=
as well as numbers precede them. Keeping that in mind immensely helps deci=
phering Klingon and writing in it oneself.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">* translation attempts aren't in vain, it not only helps=
you remember the vocabulary, but also to see how experiences speakers use =
the language. You might have come across problems that you couldn't sol=
ve, e.g. I was perplexed about the lack of a word for "with" and =
"without"=C2=A0 back in the days when I started, and I tried to m=
isuse suffixes for that... but then I read some Klingon text and tried to s=
ee how it actually worked and found out how. That was very helpful.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Not bad! Not bad at all! :)<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font colo=
r=3D"#888888"><br>
- Andr=C3=A9</font></span></p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Oct 31, 2015 10:40, &q=
uot;De'vID" <<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution">=
</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"h5"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 3=
1 October 2015 at 09:15, qunnoQ HoD <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span> wrot=
e:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
><div><span><span>> <span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Qo=E2=80=99.=C2=
=A0 tlhIngan Hol=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 bopbe=E2=80=99. tlhIngan Hol yejHaD Deg=
h neH bop. =C2=A0yImugh SoH =E2=80=98ej bIQaghchugh nIQaH latlhpu=E2=80=99<=
br></span></span></span>no.
this does not concern the klingon language. it concerns the KLI symbol.
you must translate it,and if you make mistakes they will help you=20
another one (?).<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <br></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>In {nIQaH latlhpu'}, the subject of {nIQaH} is {latlhpu=
'}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">&=
gt; </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">jIjanglaH Hol=
QeD veywIj vInuD.</font></span><br><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"></s=
pan></div></div><div>to be able to reply i examined and farmed my HolQeD pa=
ckage (?!?!?!) (i laughed so hard that tears came out of my eyes..)</div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{-wIj} is a suffix here, not the=
verb {wIj}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">=
> </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">tera=E2=80=
=99 DIS wa=E2=80=99SaD Hutvatlh HutmaH</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <=
font face=3D"Calibri">jav qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99Daq</font></span><span lang=
=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">Degh chu=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang =E2=80=98=
angghal.</font></span><br></div><div>earth years one thousand nine hundred =
nine ten (i guess 1990) at the sixth qep'a' the new symbol was newl=
y jealously revealed<span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">=C2=A0 <br>=
</font></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{'angg=
hal} is a name. It's the Klingon name of Lawrence Schoen, KLI director.=
=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">> </=
font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">qep=E2=80=99a=E2=
=80=99 jeyDaq Degh Deq lo=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en=
-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">, vaj qaStaHvIS qep=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 much SeQ=
ta=E2=80=99law=E2=80=99 =E2=80=98ang</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fo=
nt face=3D"Calibri">ghal.</font></span><br></div><div>at
that qep'a the prior symbol was defeated, so it was occuring to happen=
=20
at the qep'a' formal presentation by many was accomplished to be=20
jealously revealed<span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"> </font></spa=
n>(i feel like an idiot)</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
{jey} is a noun, not the verb {jey}.</div><div><br></div><div>Don't fee=
l like an idiot. Nobody told you that {'angghal} is a name, and your at=
tempts to parse it as a word are misleading you.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span lan=
g=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">>=C2=A0</font></span><span lang=3D"en=
-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri">chaq ngugh</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"> <=
font face=3D"Calibri">maHvaD Degh cha=E2=80=99bogh</font></span><span lang=
=3D"en-ca"> <font face=3D"Calibri">Hu</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fo=
nt face=3D"Calibri">mwI=E2=80=99mey lunoblu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lan=
g=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"> je.</font></span><br></div><div>perhaps=
at that time for us the symbol which was displayed was made sticky they ga=
ve it also</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{HumwI'} =
=3D sticker</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span><span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=
=3D"Calibri">> </font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibri"=
>QonoSwIj tIQDaq Deghmey Sar lulo=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca=
"><font face=3D"Calibri">pu=E2=80=99</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><fon=
t face=3D"Calibri">b</font></span><span lang=3D"en-ca"><font face=3D"Calibr=
i">ogh vImuch.<br></font></span></span></span></div><div>my journal one of =
the various ancient symbols which they used and they presented</div></div><=
/div></blockquote></div><br>{tIQ} applies to {QonoS} not to {Degh} here. Th=
e journal Qov is referring to is her blog.<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>=
-- <br><div>De'vID</div>
</div></div>
<br></div></div><span class=3D"">__________________________________________=
_____<br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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