[101361] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Oct 11 12:57:21 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <11216124.39568.1444578299212.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:57:13 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I didn=E2=80=99t refresh my mail in between reading and answering, but I =
like how succinct that question is. =20
Succinct answer=E2=80=94if you don=E2=80=99t know, you don=E2=80=99t =
know.
Long answer:
Out loud, I think they=E2=80=99d sound a little different. With no =
context, {*Qov* HoD vIlegh} with emphasis on Qov, would be Captain Qov. =
{Qov *HoD* vIlegh} with the emphasis on HoD would suggest that it was my =
captain. But that could be reversed if the conversation involved some =
doubt about my rank, or about whose captain was sighted. But that would =
involve context, so you=E2=80=99d know. If someone gets confused, you =
have to explain with {HoD ghaH Qov=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99, HoD =
ghajbe=E2=80=99} or {HoD ghaHbe=E2=80=99 Qov=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99. =
HoDDaj=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 vIqel.}
I have a hat that I call (in English) =E2=80=9Cmy captain=E2=80=99s =
hat.=E2=80=9D Do you think I got it from a captain who mentored me or =
that it=E2=80=99s part of a uniform I wear as a captain? Neither is =
true. It=E2=80=99s a ridiculous rainbow striped sunhat that my best =
friend gave me to celebrate my being hired as a captain. If you =
don=E2=80=99t know, you don=E2=80=99t know.
=20
- Qov
=20
From: Anthony Appleyard [mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com]=20
Sent: October 11, 2015 8:45
To: lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com; tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences
=20
But please, how to distinguish e.g. "Captain Qov" from "Qov's captain"?
----Original message----
From : lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com
Date : 11/10/2015 - 16:30 (GMTST)
To : tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject : Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences
I don't think that adding a title to a name is necessarily considered to =
be apposition. It's one thing to say "The pilot, Qov, is very =
experienced." That's apposition. In English, it gets a comma. But, "Mr. =
Martin would like a window seat" doesn't have a comma between the title, =
Mr., and the name, Martin.
=20
In Klingon, a title always follows the name of the person it is being =
applied to, except for HoD Qanqor, who established that name for himself =
before Okrand revealed that the title should follow the name. He'd had =
it for enough years that he decided to simply ignore convention for his =
name alone. Everyone else follows their name with their title, and =
Qanqor follows this convention for all names except his own.
....
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>I didn=E2=80=99t refresh my mail in between reading and answering, =
but I like how succinct that question is.=C2=A0 <br><br>Succinct =
answer=E2=80=94if you don=E2=80=99t know, you don=E2=80=99t =
know.<br><br>Long answer:<br>Out loud, I think they=E2=80=99d sound a =
little different. With no context, {*Qov* HoD vIlegh} with emphasis on =
Qov, would be Captain Qov. {Qov *<b>HoD</b>* vIlegh} with the emphasis =
on HoD would suggest that it was my captain. But that could be reversed =
if the conversation involved some doubt about my rank, or about whose =
captain was sighted.=C2=A0 But that would involve context, so =
you=E2=80=99d know.=C2=A0 If someone gets confused, you have to explain =
with {HoD ghaH Qov=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99, HoD ghajbe=E2=80=99} or {HoD =
ghaHbe=E2=80=99 Qov=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99. HoDDaj=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 =
vIqel.}<br><br>I have a hat that I call (in English) =E2=80=9Cmy =
captain=E2=80=99s hat.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 Do you think I got it from a =
captain who mentored me or that it=E2=80=99s part of a uniform I wear as =
a captain?=C2=A0 Neither is true.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s a ridiculous =
rainbow striped sunhat that my best friend gave me to celebrate my being =
hired as a captain.=C2=A0 If you don=E2=80=99t know, you don=E2=80=99t =
know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Anthony =
Appleyard [mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October =
11, 2015 8:45<br><b>To:</b> lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com; =
tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun =
sequences<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>But please, =
how to distinguish e.g. "Captain Qov" from "Qov's =
captain"?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>----Original message----<br>From : <a =
href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a><b=
r>Date : 11/10/2015 - 16:30 (GMTST)<br>To : <a =
href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>Subject =
: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I don't think that adding a title to a name is =
necessarily considered to be apposition. It's one thing to say "The =
pilot, Qov, is very experienced." That's apposition. In English, it =
gets a comma. But, "Mr. Martin would like a window seat" =
doesn't have a comma between the title, Mr., and the name, =
Martin.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=3DAppleMailSignature><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div =
id=3DAppleMailSignature><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>In Klingon, a title always follows the =
name of the person it is being applied to, except for HoD Qanqor, who =
established that name for himself before Okrand revealed that the title =
should follow the name. He'd had it for enough years that he decided to =
simply ignore convention for his name alone. Everyone else follows their =
name with their title, and Qanqor follows this convention for all names =
except his own.<br>....<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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