[101358] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Oct 11 12:16:31 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <28096777.26004.1444570750305.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:16:22 -0700
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You won=E2=80=99t find a formula of A and B and C that tell you what a =
noun string should mean. You have to say it, see if it makes sense, and =
then see if adding the next layer makes sense.=20
=20
We know {Bob, John puqloD} works.
=20
In English =E2=80=9CBob, son of John, son of Fred...=E2=80=9D may work =
just because each phrase sets up the new name at the end, to be in =
apposition with the next =E2=80=9Cson of...=E2=80=9D phrase. Perhaps =
Voragh the canon master will spot this and enlighten us about whether =
the Klingon grammar of extended genealogy has ever been used in an =
episode or paq=E2=80=99batlh. To make it clear, I might say Bob, John =
puqloD, Fred puqnI=E2=80=99loD je, but that=E2=80=99s not extensible =
through more generations.
=20
As for the rank designation, HoD Qanqor is a kind of special case. He =
was known as HoD Qanqor before we knew thatthe proper way to specify a =
Klingon rank is Qanqor HoD=E2=80=94the title follows the name. He jokes =
now that his NAME is HoD Qanqor and his rank is HoD, and thus that his =
full name and title is HoD Qanqor HoD. Without this history on Qanqor, =
HoD DaS would mean the captain=E2=80=99s boot, and DaS HoD would mean =
Captain Boot. Indeed, Picard HoD could mean Picard=E2=80=99s captain. I =
don=E2=80=99t remember a conversation in which this sort of thing became =
a problem, but I suppose it could.
I=E2=80=99m also trying to find a context in which A =E2=80=98oHbogh B =
makes sense to me. ?{Picard ghaHbogh HoD} ?{HoD ghaHbogh Picard}. The =
difficulty is that I don=E2=80=99t think a =E2=80=93bogh clause can act =
like a noun in a N-N construction.
=20
- Qov
=20
From: Anthony Appleyard [mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com]=20
Sent: October 11, 2015 6:39
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences
=20
If any sequence of nouns "A B" means "B of A", how to say e.g. "A son of =
B son of C"? I have been using "A B puqloD C puqloD". Or does that =
always mean "son of C of son of B of A"? Or what? I have seen uses of A =
B where the 2 nouns are in apposition, i.e. "A who is B": e.g."HoD =
Qanqor" or "Qanqor HoD" means "Captain Krankor" and not "the captain's =
Krankor" or "Krankor's captain".
Does "Picard HoD" mean "Captain Picard" now, but "Picard's captain" =
before he was promoted to captain? Or what?
Sometimes I have used "A 'oHbogh B" to mean "A which is B", i.e. "A B" =
where A and B are in apposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>You won=E2=80=99t find a formula of A and B and C that tell you what =
a noun string should mean.=C2=A0 You have to say it, see if it makes =
sense, and then see if adding the next layer makes sense. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>We know {Bob, John puqloD} works.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In English =E2=80=9CBob, son of John, son of Fred...=E2=80=9D may =
work just because each phrase sets up the new name at the end, to be in =
apposition with the next =E2=80=9Cson of...=E2=80=9D phrase. Perhaps =
Voragh the canon master will spot this and enlighten us about whether =
the Klingon grammar of extended genealogy has ever been used in an =
episode or paq=E2=80=99batlh. =C2=A0To make it clear, I might say Bob, =
John puqloD, Fred puqnI=E2=80=99loD je, but that=E2=80=99s not =
extensible through more generations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>As for the rank designation, HoD Qanqor is a kind of special =
case.=C2=A0 He was known as HoD Qanqor before we knew thatthe proper way =
to specify a Klingon rank is Qanqor HoD=E2=80=94the title follows the =
name. He jokes now that his NAME is HoD Qanqor and his rank is HoD, and =
thus that his full name and title is HoD Qanqor HoD.=C2=A0 Without this =
history on Qanqor, HoD DaS would mean the captain=E2=80=99s boot, and =
DaS HoD would mean Captain Boot.=C2=A0 Indeed, Picard HoD could mean =
Picard=E2=80=99s captain. I don=E2=80=99t remember a conversation in =
which this sort of thing became a problem, but I suppose it =
could.<br><br>I=E2=80=99m also trying to find a context in which A =
=E2=80=98oHbogh B makes sense to me.=C2=A0 ?{Picard ghaHbogh HoD}=C2=A0 =
?{HoD ghaHbogh Picard}. =C2=A0The difficulty is that I don=E2=80=99t =
think a =E2=80=93bogh clause can act like a noun in a N-N =
construction.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Anthony =
Appleyard [mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> October =
11, 2015 6:39<br><b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br><b>Subject:</b> =
[Tlhingan-hol] Noun sequences<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>If any sequence of nouns "A B" =
means "B of A", how to say e.g. "A son of B son of =
C"? I have been using "A B puqloD C puqloD". Or does that =
always mean "son of C of son of B of A"? Or what? I have seen =
uses of A B where the 2 nouns are in apposition, i.e. "A who is =
B": e.g."<span class=3Dtlh>HoD Qanqor" or "Qanqor =
HoD"</span> means "Captain Krankor" and not "the =
captain's Krankor" or "Krankor's captain".<br><br>Does =
"Picard HoD" mean "Captain Picard" now, but =
"Picard's captain" before he was promoted to captain? Or =
what?<br><br>Sometimes I have used "A 'oHbogh B" to mean =
"A which is B", i.e. "A B" where A and B are in =
apposition.<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition">https://en.wikipedia.or=
g/wiki/Apposition</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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