[101355] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Star Trek VI The Undiscovered Country
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sun Oct 11 11:51:44 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+fGGWjkor59KzvX2uxLC=DsTK0HropHOGjgKTu5cPtPw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 08:51:34 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> does this mean that nouns are always (whenever they are stringed =
together) grouped in pairs ? i.e. the first two, then the next two etc ?
ghobe=E2=80=99. No it doesn=E2=80=99t.
Here are some groupings from canon sentences
tlhIngan wo' Degh --> (Klingon Empire) symbol
tlhI=C2=ADngan qor=C2=ADDu=E2=80=99 pong --> a Klingon=E2=80=99s (family =
name)
HoS Hal qeng=C2=ADwI=E2=80=99 naQ --> ((power source) carrier) stick)
tlhI=C2=ADngan yo=E2=80=99 Suv=C2=ADwI=E2=80=99 --> (Klingon fleet) =
warrior
Please have another look at that e-mail with all the parentheses, and =
see I described that the nouns might be grouped in any way. You must use =
your knowledge of the world to decide which grouping is sensible for the =
sentence. I=E2=80=99m describing the language in little bits at a time =
for you, so each is something you can learn, and after each e-mail you =
have a little more that you can add to the conversation, but the =
messages lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv is sending regarding thinking =
about the language are no less important. It=E2=80=99s not a little =
code. It=E2=80=99s a language that means something and neither =
boQwI=E2=80=99 nor Bing will ever bring what you already have in your =
head to understanding it.
=20
>> tlhIngan qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a foot of a Klingon, or it is a =
Klingon's foot
>> qam Hom =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a bone of the foot,or it is the foot's =
bone
>> baS qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a metallic foot
>> tlhIngan baS qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a foot of a metallic Klingon =
(this sounds a little weird), or it is a Klingon metallic foot.
lugh! (right!) so unless someone were already talking about a Klingon =
Terminator or the like, you would probably lean towards its being a =
metallic Klingon foot. Maybe a prosthetic?
> You are a human foot surgeon =3D qam HaqwI Human SoH
Hmm. The last noun in any grouping is the one that is the thing, with =
the others being ones that describe it or each other. So you=E2=80=99re =
calling this person some sort of human. Either they are a (qam =
HaqwI=E2=80=99) Human =E2=80=93 a foot-surgeon Human=E2=80=94or they are =
a qam (HaqwI=E2=80=99 Human)---a foot=E2=80=99s surgeon-Human. I guess =
the person is a member of a group of humans who have been captured and =
made into slaves or some kind of exhibition, each individual designated =
by his or her role. The foot-surgeon Human makes sense there. I =
can=E2=80=99t even make up a story to make sense of a foot=E2=80=99s =
surgeon-Human. So try that one again.=20
Noun-noun constructions are, for some reason, often challenging for =
beginners. I think it may be because basic Klingon sentence order =
hasn=E2=80=99t solidified in their brains yet, so they are still =
imposing the order of their native language. Or they start to think of =
the modifying nouns as adjectives, and then ... but why would I need to =
tell you how to get confused when you can find your way there without =
trouble?
> lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh what is {vIrI'} ? i =
can't find its meaning..=20
> And yes,you are right ; in order for someone to learn any kind of =
language (real or constructed) he has to learn to think in that =
language,and not just try to replace words from his=20
> native language to the one he's trying to learn. That is why i have =
bought every Klingon book i managed to find,hoping that as soon as i =
learn the basics,i will start reading -even at a > very slow pace- in =
Klingon so as to get the <<feel>> of the Klingon.
Ah good. You are taking his words to heart. I will also send you a =
Klingon story confined to simpler grammatical structures and basic =
vocabulary.
- Qov
=20
On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 2:14 AM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh =
<lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com> wrote:
Just to supplement Qov=E2=80=99s excellent answers and lessons here, I =
just want to open your mind to principles that are mentioned in The =
Klingon Dictionary, but tend to be glossed over by new people learning =
the language.
=20
Klingon is a language, not a code. Implied in this, you need to realize =
that replacing English words with Klingon words and changing the word =
order is not always going to translate an English sentence into a =
Klingon sentence very well. Sometimes, you have to pay less attention to =
the words in an English sentence and pay more attention to its meaning.
=20
In particular, I=E2=80=99m going to make the sentence I=E2=80=99m now =
writing somewhat of an example of how a person speaking English can =
easily pack a lot more than that =E2=80=9Csingle thought=E2=80=9D they =
taught you about in high school, which is supposed to be the official =
boundary of what constitutes a sentence into a sentence, but in fact, =
English, though its extensive use of =E2=80=9Chelper words=E2=80=9D, can =
pack quite a bit more than a single thought into a sentence and just =
keep on going, sucking in new ideas that have nothing to do with the =
original =E2=80=9Csingle thought=E2=80=9D that a sentence was supposed =
to have contained, much like the term =E2=80=9Ccottage cheese=E2=80=9D, =
which I once dreamed quite believably within the boundaries of the dream =
to be the secret of the Universe =E2=80=94 the answer to all questions =
=E2=80=94 even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence =
I started writing to illustrate one of the differences between Klingon =
grammar and English grammar.
=20
My point is, that English can pack much more into a sentence than any =
self-respecting Klingon speaker would ever want to TRY to pack into one =
Klingon sentence.
=20
So, if you want to say, =E2=80=9CI am a human foot surgeon,=E2=80=9D =
there is no reason to not break that down into two Klingon sentences. =
{HaqwI=E2=80=99 jIH. Human jIH.}
=20
Or, if you wanted to make that other statement: HaqwI=E2=80=99 jIH. =
Human qamDu=E2=80=99 vIrI=E2=80=99.
=20
It makes for very clear expression of meaning, and avoids the artificial =
challenge of packing three nouns together, leaving the listener to =
figure out from context what the relationship is among them. =
Don=E2=80=99t expect to hold a Klingon=E2=80=99s attention by packing =
more than one thought into a sentence. He might hurt you. Don=E2=80=99t =
tease a gorilla, and don=E2=80=99t speak long, complex sentences to a =
Klingon.
=20
In TKD, Okrand also points out that in Klingon, it is much more common =
than in English to repeat the same noun in a sentence, where in English =
we tend to replace all but the first mention with pronouns. The point =
here is that Klingon sentences tend to be short enough that you =
aren=E2=80=99t padding them all that much to repeat a noun now and then, =
and it gives you the opportunity to be extremely clear about exactly =
whom or what you are talking about.
=20
Since Klingons are often discussing things like whom to kill or what to =
destroy, clarity has a lot of cultural value. Learn to speak Klingon =
clearly.
=20
lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh
Door Repair Guy, Retired Honorably
=20
=20
=20
On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:46 AM, HoD qunnoQ <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
=20
thanks for the corrections ! yes indeed i tried to say that Qov is a =
space ship,but i got the word order wrong ; but now i understand how i =
should have written it.
moving on to your new question,as i understand it,it asks "am i a paper =
book ?" but yet another question arises.. the 'a' is an interrogative ; =
why place a question mark at the end ? isn't that unnecessary ?
and to try to answer to the question : ghobe'. qam HaqwI' SoH. =20
but if wanted to write "no,you are a human foot surgeon" how would i =
write it ? "ghobe'. qam HaqwI' Human SoH " ?
qunnoQ
=20
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 3:42 PM, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
>> HaqwI' JIH je. qam HaqwI' jIH. ro HaqwI' SoH'a'?
>
> with the help of the boQwI app i think that this means : "i'm a =
surgeon
> too. a foot surgeon. are you a trunk/body surgeon ?"
maj!
> i would like to give the reply "no,i'm an orthopaedic surgeon". So
> maybe i would say : "Qo'. ghIv HaqwI' jiH."
Check what boQwI' says about {Qo'} as an exclamation. It cannot be used =
to answer a "yes" or "no" question. It is used when somebody tells you =
to do something and you refuse. Now look up {ghobe'}. The sentence =
which follows that was very well done. majQa'!
> @ Qov (robyn) : Duj logh SoH !=20
Perfect use of {SoH}! Though I think the other words may have gotten a =
little mixed up.
When you put two nouns together (like {ghIv HaqwI'} and {Duj logh}), the =
second noun is the thing being described and the first noun modifies it =
in some way. A common relationship between the two is that the first =
noun is owner of the second noun. But it may also be that the second =
noun is made out of the first noun. Or that second noun is the type =
used by the first noun. Other more complicated relationships are =
possible, but the point it's a first-noun kind of second-noun. By the =
way, this is exactly how we do it in English, too and when you are =
putting two nouns together you can often (but not always) just put the =
English and Klingon in the same order (for possession we add 's in =
English, but nothing in Klingon). In those cases where that is not =
clear, it helps to reverse the order of the words and insert "of".
{janSIy SID} is "Johnshee's patient" (ownership). {baS Haqtaj} is a =
"steel scalpel" (made of). {tlhIngan Duj} is a "Klingon ship" (used =
by). {yIn Quj} is the "game of life" (more complicated relationship).
So I am a "foot kind of surgeon", a "foot surgeon", or a "surgeon of the =
foot". You are a "limb kind of surgeon", a "limb surgeon", or a =
"surgeon of the limbs". And you've described Qov as a "ship kind of =
outer space", a "ship outer space", or an "outer space of a ship". You =
might have instead meant {Duj} to mean "instinct", but I'm proceeding =
under the assumption that you meant to call Qov a "space ship". If =
that's the case, then you're saying she's a kind of ship and the kind of =
ship is a space kind. The descriptor goes first followed by the thing =
being described. So {logh Duj} is "space ship".
nav paq jIH'a'?
janSIy
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=20
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=20
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http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
=20
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>> does =
this<span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> mean that nouns are always (whenever they are stringed together) =
grouped in pairs ? i.e. the first two, then the next two etc =
?<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br>ghobe=E2=80=99.=C2=A0 No it doesn=E2=80=99t.<br><br>Here are some =
groupings from canon sentences<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3Dtlh>tlhIngan wo' Degh --> (Klingon =
Empire) symbol<br></span><b>tlhI=C2=ADngan qor=C2=ADDu=E2=80=99 pong =
--> a Klingon=E2=80=99s (family name)<br>HoS Hal =
qeng=C2=ADwI=E2=80=99 naQ --> ((power source) carrier) =
stick)<br>tlhI=C2=ADngan yo=E2=80=99 Suv=C2=ADwI=E2=80=99 --> =
(Klingon fleet) warrior</b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br><br>Please have another look at that e-mail with all the =
parentheses, and see I described that the nouns might be grouped in any =
way. You must use your knowledge of the world to decide which grouping =
is sensible for the sentence.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m describing the language =
in little bits at a time for you, so each is something you can learn, =
and after each e-mail you have a little more that you can add to the =
conversation, but the messages lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv is =
sending regarding thinking about the language are no less =
important.=C2=A0 It=E2=80=99s not a little code. It=E2=80=99s a language =
that means something and neither boQwI=E2=80=99 nor Bing will ever bring =
what you already have in your head to understanding =
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> tlhIngan qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a foot of a Klingon, or it is =
a Klingon's foot<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> qam Hom =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a bone of the foot,or it is the =
foot's bone<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> baS qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a metallic foot<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> tlhIngan baS qam =E2=80=98oH =3D it is a foot of a metallic =
Klingon (this sounds a little weird), or it is a Klingon metallic =
foot.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>lugh! (right!) so unless someone were already talking about a Klingon =
Terminator or the like, you would probably lean towards its being a =
metallic Klingon foot.=C2=A0 Maybe a prosthetic?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> You are a human foot surgeon =3D qam HaqwI Human SoH</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br><br>Hmm.=C2=A0 The last noun in any grouping is the one that is =
the thing, with the others being ones that describe it or each =
other.=C2=A0 So you=E2=80=99re calling this person some sort of human. =
Either they are a (qam HaqwI=E2=80=99) Human =E2=80=93 a foot-surgeon =
Human=E2=80=94or they are a qam (HaqwI=E2=80=99 Human)---a =
foot=E2=80=99s surgeon-Human.=C2=A0 I guess the person is a member of a =
group of humans who have been captured and made into slaves or some kind =
of exhibition, each individual designated by his or her role. The =
foot-surgeon Human makes sense there.=C2=A0 I can=E2=80=99t even make up =
a story to make sense of a foot=E2=80=99s surgeon-Human.=C2=A0 So try =
that one again. </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Noun-noun constructions are, for some reason, often challenging for =
beginners.=C2=A0 I think it may be because basic Klingon sentence order =
hasn=E2=80=99t solidified in their brains yet, so they are still =
imposing the order of their native language.=C2=A0 Or they start to =
think of the modifying nouns as adjectives, and then ... but why would I =
need to tell you how to get confused when you can find your way there =
without trouble?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
class=3Dim><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> </span></span><span class=3Dim><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh </span></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>what is {vIrI'} ? i can't find its meaning.. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>And yes,you are right ; in order for someone to learn any kind of =
language (real or constructed) he has to learn to think in that =
language,and not just try to replace words from his </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br>> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>native language to the one he's trying to learn. That is why i have =
bought every Klingon book i managed to find,hoping that as soon as i =
learn the basics,i will start reading -even at a </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>> </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>very slow pace- in Klingon so as to get the <<feel>> of =
the Klingon.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br><br>Ah good. You are taking his words to heart. I will also send =
you a Klingon story confined to simpler grammatical structures and basic =
vocabulary.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sun, =
Oct 11, 2015 at 2:14 AM, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv 'utlh <<a =
href=3D"mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Just to supplement =
Qov=E2=80=99s excellent answers and lessons here, I just want to open =
your mind to principles that are mentioned in The Klingon Dictionary, =
but tend to be glossed over by new people learning the =
language.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Klingon is a language, not a code. Implied in this, =
you need to realize that replacing English words with Klingon words and =
changing the word order is not always going to translate an English =
sentence into a Klingon sentence very well. Sometimes, you have to pay =
less attention to the words in an English sentence and pay more =
attention to its meaning.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>In particular, I=E2=80=99m going to make the sentence =
I=E2=80=99m now writing somewhat of an example of how a person speaking =
English can easily pack a lot more than that =E2=80=9Csingle =
thought=E2=80=9D they taught you about in high school, which is supposed =
to be the official boundary of what constitutes a sentence into a =
sentence, but in fact, English, though its extensive use of =
=E2=80=9Chelper words=E2=80=9D, can pack quite a bit more than a single =
thought into a sentence and just keep on going, sucking in new ideas =
that have nothing to do with the original =E2=80=9Csingle =
thought=E2=80=9D that a sentence was supposed to have contained, much =
like the term =E2=80=9Ccottage cheese=E2=80=9D, which I once dreamed =
quite believably within the boundaries of the dream to be the secret of =
the Universe =E2=80=94 the answer to all questions =E2=80=94 even though =
it has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence I started writing to =
illustrate one of the differences between Klingon grammar and English =
grammar.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>My point is, that English can pack much more into a =
sentence than any self-respecting Klingon speaker would ever want to TRY =
to pack into one Klingon sentence.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>So, if you want to say, =E2=80=9CI am a human foot =
surgeon,=E2=80=9D there is no reason to not break that down into two =
Klingon sentences. {HaqwI=E2=80=99 jIH. Human =
jIH.}<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Or, if you wanted to make that other statement: =
HaqwI=E2=80=99 jIH. Human qamDu=E2=80=99 =
vIrI=E2=80=99.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>It makes for very clear expression of meaning, and =
avoids the artificial challenge of packing three nouns together, leaving =
the listener to figure out from context what the relationship is among =
them. Don=E2=80=99t expect to hold a Klingon=E2=80=99s attention by =
packing more than one thought into a sentence. He might hurt you. =
Don=E2=80=99t tease a gorilla, and don=E2=80=99t speak long, complex =
sentences to a Klingon.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>In TKD, Okrand also points out that in Klingon, it is =
much more common than in English to repeat the same noun in a sentence, =
where in English we tend to replace all but the first mention with =
pronouns. The point here is that Klingon sentences tend to be short =
enough that you aren=E2=80=99t padding them all that much to repeat a =
noun now and then, and it gives you the opportunity to be extremely =
clear about exactly whom or what you are talking =
about.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Since Klingons are often discussing things like whom =
to kill or what to destroy, clarity has a lot of cultural value. Learn =
to speak Klingon clearly.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =
=E2=80=98utlh<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Door Repair =
Guy, Retired Honorably<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On Oct 10, 2015, at 11:46 AM, HoD qunnoQ <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>thanks for the =
corrections ! yes indeed i tried to say that Qov is a space ship,but i =
got the word order wrong ; but now i understand how i should have =
written it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>moving on to your new question,as i =
understand it,it asks "am i a paper book ?" but yet another =
question arises.. the 'a' is an interrogative ; why place a =
question mark at the end ? isn't that unnecessary =
?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>and to try to answer to the question : =
ghobe'. qam HaqwI' SoH. <br><br>but if wanted to write =
"no,you are a human foot surgeon" how would i write it ? =
"ghobe'. qam HaqwI' Human SoH " ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>qunnoQ<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Sat, =
Oct 10, 2015 at 3:42 PM, David Holt <<a =
href=3D"mailto:kenjutsuka@live.com" =
target=3D"_blank">kenjutsuka@live.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>>> HaqwI' JIH je. qam HaqwI' jIH. ro HaqwI' =
SoH'a'?<br>><br>> with the help of the boQwI app i think that this =
means : "i'm a surgeon<br>> too. a foot surgeon. are you a =
trunk/body surgeon ?"<br><br>maj!<br><br>> i would like to give =
the reply "no,i'm an orthopaedic surgeon". So<br>> maybe i =
would say : "Qo'. ghIv HaqwI' jiH."<br><br>Check what boQwI' =
says about {Qo'} as an exclamation. It cannot be used to answer a =
"yes" or "no" question. It is used when =
somebody tells you to do something and you refuse. Now look up =
{ghobe'}. The sentence which follows that was very well done. =
majQa'!<br><br>> @ Qov (robyn) : Duj logh SoH =
! <br><br>Perfect use of {SoH}! Though I think the other =
words may have gotten a little mixed up.<br><br>When you put two nouns =
together (like {ghIv HaqwI'} and {Duj logh}), the second noun is the =
thing being described and the first noun modifies it in some way. =
A common relationship between the two is that the first noun is owner of =
the second noun. But it may also be that the second noun is made =
out of the first noun. Or that second noun is the type used by the =
first noun. Other more complicated relationships are possible, but =
the point it's a first-noun kind of second-noun. By the way, this =
is exactly how we do it in English, too and when you are putting two =
nouns together you can often (but not always) just put the English and =
Klingon in the same order (for possession we add 's in English, but =
nothing in Klingon). In those cases where that is not clear, it =
helps to reverse the order of the words and insert =
"of".<br><br>{janSIy SID} is "Johnshee's patient" =
(ownership). {baS Haqtaj} is a "steel scalpel" (made =
of). {tlhIngan Duj} is a "Klingon ship" (used by). =
{yIn Quj} is the "game of life" (more complicated =
relationship).<br><br>So I am a "foot kind of surgeon", a =
"foot surgeon", or a "surgeon of the foot". =
You are a "limb kind of surgeon", a "limb surgeon", =
or a "surgeon of the limbs". And you've described Qov as =
a "ship kind of outer space", a "ship outer space", =
or an "outer space of a ship". You might have instead =
meant {Duj} to mean "instinct", but I'm proceeding under the =
assumption that you meant to call Qov a "space ship". If =
that's the case, then you're saying she's a kind of ship and the kind of =
ship is a space kind. The descriptor goes first followed by the =
thing being described. So {logh Duj} is "space =
ship".<br><br>nav paq jIH'a'?<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>janSIy<br>_________________________________________=
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