[101263] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Upper case letters
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Chelsea Knauf)
Fri Oct 2 11:32:42 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAFgJOr0-NfUMrxM_m2rjW9JsvD4n0rHxix_gKdZN8gFZkABghg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 10:32:27 -0500
From: Chelsea Knauf <chelsea.knauf@gmail.com>
To: Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I think the Q and q are just to differentiate the two sounds in writing.
He could have used q and k, I suppose.
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.co=
m
> wrote:
> I don't think Okrand's choices are random; I think they're rooted in
> various methods of phonetic transcription.
> - S and D are both retroflex.
> - I actually have a Webster's dictionary printed before TKD that uses H i=
n
> its transcription of "Bach".
> - I (capital i) looks like the IPA symbol for that vowel.
> - I have no theory for Q.
>
> bI'reng
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hod qunnoQ:
>>
>> > is it known why the specific letters (written always in upper case in
>> Klingon)
>> > were chosen by Okrand ?
>> > i mean why "S" and not "G" ? why "D" and not "M" ? and so on..
>> > does anyone know the reason behind these choices?
>>
>> IIRC Okrand used upper case to indicate those letters which were
>> pronounced differently from English. That is, {S} is closer to /sh/ tha=
n
>> /sss/; {H} is like the /ch/ in Bach, not the /h=E2=80=99s/ in Hannah; {I=
} is like
>> the dotless /i/ in Turkish or the **bI** in Russian, not /eee/ in
>> Spanish or Italian, and so on. It was simply a way of warning the actor=
s
>> in Star Trek III (which he coached at the studio) to be careful when
>> delivering their Klingon lines. But he wasn=E2=80=99t consistent. Why,=
for
>> example, did he use the digraph {gh} for the gargled **ghayin** of
>> Arabic or the uvular /r/ in French instead of G, which doesn=E2=80=99t =
otherwise
>> appear in Klingon? And then there=E2=80=99s {tlh}!
>>
>> --
>>
>> Voragh
>>
>> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
>> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
>> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think the Q and q are just to differentiate the two soun=
ds in writing.=C2=A0 He could have used q and k, I suppose.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 10:2=
0 AM, Brent Kesler <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:brent.of.all.peo=
ple@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">brent.of.all.people@gmail.com</a>></spa=
n> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I don't th=
ink Okrand's choices are random; I think they're rooted in various =
methods of phonetic transcription.<div>- S and D are both retroflex.</div><=
div>- I actually have a Webster's dictionary=C2=A0printed=C2=A0before T=
KD that uses H in its transcription of "Bach".</div><div>- I (cap=
ital i) looks like the IPA symbol for that vowel.</div><div>- I have no the=
ory for Q.</div><div><br></div><div>bI'reng</div></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div class=3D"h5">On Fri, Oc=
t 2, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Steven Boozer <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:sboozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></spa=
n> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class=3D"=
h5">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546a">Hod qunnoQ:<u></u><u></u></span></p><sp=
an>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">> is it known why =
the specific letters (written always in upper case in Klingon)<br>
> =C2=A0were chosen by Okrand ?<span style=3D"color:#44546a"><br>
</span>> i mean why "S" and not "G" ? why "D&qu=
ot; and not "M" ? and so on..<br>
> does anyone know the reason behind these choices?<u></u><u></u></p>
</span><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">IIRC Okrand us=
ed upper case to indicate those letters which were pronounced differently f=
rom English.=C2=A0 That is, {S} is closer to /sh/ than /sss/; {H} is like t=
he /ch/ in Bach, not the /h=E2=80=99s/ in Hannah; {I} is
like the dotless /i/ in Turkish or the *<b>bI</b>* in Russian, not /eee/ i=
n Spanish or Italian, and so on.=C2=A0 It was simply a way of warning the a=
ctors in Star Trek III (which he coached at the studio) to be careful when =
delivering their Klingon lines.=C2=A0 But
he wasn=E2=80=99t consistent.=C2=A0 Why, for example, did he use the digra=
ph {gh} for the gargled *<b>ghayin</b>* of Arabic or the uvular /r/ in Fren=
ch instead of =C2=A0G, which doesn=E2=80=99t otherwise appear in Klingon?=
=C2=A0 And then there=E2=80=99s {tlh}!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:black">--<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:black">Voragh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:black">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif;color:#44546a"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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