[101137] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Question on Reason Clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI' nuv)
Fri Aug 28 07:53:46 2015
From: "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv" <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
X-Google-Original-From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv <lojmIttI7wI7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <001801d0e125$13063d80$3912b880$@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 07:53:23 -0400
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Just to be clear about my earlier message, I think the original translation i=
s the best. It is certainly how I would have translated it. My other suggest=
ions were merely a response to what sounded like, "Are there other possible t=
ranslations?"
There are ALWAYS other translations. That's the primary difference between a=
language and a code. Codes have one translation. Between languages, ALL tra=
nslations are imperfect involving compromise and interpretation of the unsta=
ted, subtle bits of meaning behind the original expression.=20
What did Hamlet mean by the simple expression, "To be, or not to be? That is=
the question,"? Doctoral Theses have been written on this. Actors and liter=
ary critics make their living arguing over this. And, "I know why you kille=
d him," is rife with unstated context and subtle meaning.=20
Every translation requires assumptions and interpretations. A superior trans=
lation can express an idea more accurately than the original. Perhaps the En=
glish speaker was trying to say something that is better expressed in Klingo=
n, but they were handicapped by the limits of their native tongue.=20
So, we can never really translate an expression out of context very well. We=
don't fully understand what you mean when you say, "I know why you killed h=
im," without context because there are so many dissimilar contexts that coul=
d bring you to those words in English. For many of them, there might be some=
other superior translation.=20
None of this is intended to intimidate new Klingon speakers. Crawl first. Wa=
lk later. Run later still. Perhaps fly. But crawl first.=20
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
>=20
> Your way is really good..
>=20
> People want to try and force the word qatlh in there, but that is because i=
n English the word =E2=80=9Cwhy=E2=80=9D is both a question word and a subor=
dinate conjunction. In Klingon qatlh only asks a question, so if you aren=E2=
=80=99t asking a question it has no place in the sentence.=20
>=20
> You could use a rhetorical question: qatlh DaHoHta=E2=80=99? vISov jIH. B=
ut I think your way is better, don=E2=80=99t you?
>=20
> - Qov
>=20
> =20
> From: Chelsea Knauf [mailto:chelsea.knauf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: August 27, 2015 13:26
> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Question on Reason Clauses
> =20
> I'm trying to figure out how to translate "I know why you killed him".
> =20
> {DaHoHta'. meqlIj vISov}? "You killed him; I know your motive". Is ther=
e another way to say this?
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Just to be clear about my earlier mess=
age, I think the original translation is the best. It is certainly how I wou=
ld have translated it. My other suggestions were merely a response to what s=
ounded like, "Are there other possible translations?"</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>There are ALWAYS other translations. That's the primary difference betwee=
n a language and a code. Codes have one translation. Between languages, ALL t=
ranslations are imperfect involving compromise and interpretation of the uns=
tated, subtle bits of meaning behind the original expression. </div><di=
v><br></div><div>What did Hamlet mean by the simple expression, "To be, or n=
ot to be? That is the question,"? Doctoral Theses have been written on this.=
Actors and literary critics make their living arguing over this. And,=
"I know why you killed him," is rife with unstated context and subtle meani=
ng. </div><div><br></div><div>Every translation requires assumptions an=
d interpretations. A superior translation can express an idea more accuratel=
y than the original. Perhaps the English speaker was trying to say something=
that is better expressed in Klingon, but they were handicapped by the limit=
s of their native tongue. </div><div><br></div><div>So, we can never re=
ally translate an expression out of context very well. We don't fully unders=
tand what you mean when you say, "I know why you killed him," without contex=
t because there are so many dissimilar contexts that could bring you to thos=
e words in English. For many of them, there might be some other superior tra=
nslation. </div><div><br></div><div>None of this is intended to intimid=
ate new Klingon speakers. Crawl first. Walk later. Run later still. Perhaps f=
ly. But crawl first. <br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Aug 27,=
2015, at 8:04 PM, Robyn Stewart <<a href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca"=
>robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite">=
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oNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&qu=
ot;sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Your way is really good..<br><br>People w=
ant to try and force the word qatlh in there, but that is because in English=
the word =E2=80=9Cwhy=E2=80=9D is both a question word and a subordinate co=
njunction. In Klingon qatlh only asks a question, so if you aren=E2=80=
=99t asking a question it has no place in the sentence. <br><br>You could us=
e a rhetorical question: qatlh DaHoHta=E2=80=99? vISov jIH. But I thin=
k your way is better, don=E2=80=99t you?<br><br>- Qov<br><br><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
;,"sans-serif""> Chelsea Knauf [<a href=3D"mailto:chelsea.knauf@gm=
ail.com">mailto:chelsea.knauf@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> August 27, 201=
5 13:26<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@k=
li.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] Question on Reason Clauses<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">I'm trying to figure out how to translate "I know why you killed=
him".<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div>=
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">{DaHoHta'. meqlIj vISov}? "You kille=
d him; I know your motive". Is there another way to say this?<o:p></o:=
p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><s=
pan>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>Tlhingan=
-hol mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tl=
hingan-hol@kli.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/tlhingan-hol">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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