[100501] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qepHom 2015 with Marc Okrand
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI' nuv)
Sat Mar 28 09:14:20 2015
From: "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv" <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 09:13:54 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
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I haven't seen mention that {jIyaj} is somewhat of a special case because Kl=
ingon has, like Japanese, "pure vowels", and English often doesn't. The Engl=
ish long E is pronounced differently in America as a defining part of a regi=
onal dialect. More southern accents tend to glide from an initial {I} into a=
final "ee", and the {y} is definitely "ee", which is a sound that Klingon t=
reats as a consonant.=20
So, when you properly say {Iy} in Klingon, it sounds like a Southern "ee", w=
hich many English speakers "fix" by pronouncing a more northern "ee", which i=
s the more pure English vowel, without the glide, and happens to be a conson=
ant in Klingon.=20
As for the {j}, Okrand specifically warned us against the French "j" for a r=
eason. We use it often in English, because we borrow so many words from othe=
r languages. "Judge" is a special case because the "j" is exactly the same a=
s the "dge".=20
Meanwhile, how many English words can you think of that end in {aj}? The {a}=
already sounds rather French. Quell domage. (I'm probably misspelling it, b=
ut it's the one most frequently uttered phrase by my high school French teac=
her, whose English was dramatically southern, and I'm 60, so it's been a whi=
le.) I can't think of any I borrowed English words that end with "ah" follow=
ed by the hard "dj" sound. Maybe "garage", but as often as not, that gets th=
e softer French "j" sound.=20
All this means that we have to be diligent with our pronunciation. {jIyaj}, l=
ike {Qapla'} is said often, and typically mispronounced. The latter falls vi=
ctim of syllable boundary problems, because starting a syllable with a conso=
nant cluster is common in English and unpronounceable in Klingon, and Englis=
h has glottal stops between syllables, but never at the end of a word. "Kaah=
-plaah, dude".=20
So, when we say anything a lot in Klingon, that's when we must focus the mos=
t. Unfamiliar things naturally get attention for good pronunciation, but the=
more familiar an utterance, the easier it is to get lazy and slide back to E=
nglishified mispronunciation. =20
Sent from my iPad
> On Mar 28, 2015, at 2:14 AM, Anthony Appleyard <a.appleyard@btinternet.com=
> wrote:
>=20
> Compare the common British television mispronunciation of Beijing as Beizh=
ing.
> ----Original message----
> =46rom : kenjutsuka@live.com
> Date : 28/03/2015 - 04:00 (GMTST)
> To : tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> Subject : Re: [Tlhingan-hol] qepHom 2015 with Marc Okrand
>=20
> I get a lot of English speakers that don't speak any French, but still say=
zheeyazh. It seems many English speakers develop a unconscious idea that a=
ll non-English j's are pronounced as if they were French.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I haven't seen mention that {jIyaj} is=
somewhat of a special case because Klingon has, like Japanese, "pure vowels=
", and English often doesn't. The English long E is pronounced differently i=
n America as a defining part of a regional dialect. More southern accents te=
nd to glide from an initial {I} into a final "ee", and the {y} is definitely=
"ee", which is a sound that Klingon treats as a consonant. </div><div>=
<br></div><div>So, when you properly say {Iy} in Klingon, it sounds like a S=
outhern "ee", which many English speakers "fix" by pronouncing a more northe=
rn "ee", which is the more pure English vowel, without the glide, and happen=
s to be a consonant in Klingon. </div><div><br></div><div>As for the {j=
}, Okrand specifically warned us against the French "j" for a reason. We use=
it often in English, because we borrow so many words from other languages. "=
Judge" is a special case because the "j" is exactly the same as the "dge".&n=
bsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Meanwhile, how many English words can you thin=
k of that end in {aj}? The {a} already sounds rather French. Quell domage. (=
I'm probably misspelling it, but it's the one most frequently uttered phrase=
by my high school French teacher, whose English was dramatically southern, a=
nd I'm 60, so it's been a while.) I can't think of any I borrowed English wo=
rds that end with "ah" followed by the hard "dj" sound. Maybe "garage", but a=
s often as not, that gets the softer French "j" sound. </div><div><br><=
/div><div>All this means that we have to be diligent with our pronunciation.=
{jIyaj}, like {Qapla'} is said often, and typically mispronounced. The latt=
er falls victim of syllable boundary problems, because starting a syllable w=
ith a consonant cluster is common in English and unpronounceable in Klingon,=
and English has glottal stops between syllables, but never at the end of a w=
ord. "Kaah-plaah, dude". </div><div><br></div><div>So, when we say anyt=
hing a lot in Klingon, that's when we must focus the most. Unfamiliar things=
naturally get attention for good pronunciation, but the more familiar an ut=
terance, the easier it is to get lazy and slide back to Englishified mispron=
unciation. <br><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On Mar 28, 2015, at=
2:14 AM, Anthony Appleyard <<a href=3D"mailto:a.appleyard@btinternet.com=
">a.appleyard@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div>Compare the common British television mispronunciation of Beijin=
g as Beizhing.<br><blockquote style=3D"margin-right: 0px; margin-left:15px;"=
>----Original message----<br>=46rom : <a href=3D"mailto:kenjutsuka@live.com"=
>kenjutsuka@live.com</a><br>Date : 28/03/2015 - 04:00 (GMTST)<br>To : <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@kli.org">tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br>Subject : Re: [=
Tlhingan-hol] qepHom 2015 with Marc Okrand<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><br></d=
iv><div>I get a lot of English speakers that don't speak any French, but sti=
ll say zheeyazh. It seems many English speakers develop a unconscious i=
dea that all non-English j's are pronounced as if they were French.</div><br=
></div></div></blockquote><p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite=
"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span=
>Tlhingan-hol mailing list</span><br><span><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kl=
i.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D"http://mail.kli.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhin=
gan-hol</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=
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