[100446] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh text for Bing
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu Mar 19 12:14:39 2015
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <255B8F64-27B1-491F-B1A6-3C5F4A4D97C1@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 09:14:18 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Reason #1: Improving the worst Klingon on the net, as well as the best.
You know how when a friend or relative sends you greetings in =
=E2=80=9CKlingon=E2=80=9D or you come across a web page or a press =
release that someone has =E2=80=9Ctranslated=E2=80=9D with Mr. Klingon =
and you just want to reach through the Internet and [TE/KI]LL them? Or =
when a TV show has characters speak =E2=80=9CKlingon=E2=80=9D but they =
haven=E2=80=99t bothered to do any research so it=E2=80=99s word for =
word English and you have to hurt your brain to understand it? Imagine =
if that were replaced by clumsy, mechanical but recognizable Klingon, of =
the sort turned out by a reasonably intelligent beginner who has done a =
first readthrough of TKD?
=20
It=E2=80=99s still going to need work by an expert to be good Klingon, =
but it will be closer to Klingon than to gibberish.
Reason #2: Publicity
Internet person plays with Bing Translator: =E2=80=9CWait, I can =
translate in and out of Klingon? Klingon is real? There=E2=80=99s a =
link here .. <click> new message to mailing list ... =E2=80=98qavan =
guys, bing mughwI' vItu' DaHjaj. tlhIngan qar Hol?=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D =
(That=E2=80=99s the actual output from the public version of Bing for =
=E2=80=9CHi guys, I found the Bing translator today. Is Klingon really a =
language?=E2=80=9D The private one continues to improve, but I have a =
few more things to fix up before it replaces the live one).
=20
Reason #3: Language preservation
Klingonists are articulate and computer savvy, yet speak a language that =
s very unlike English. Every problem with the engine that I find and =
every improvement that they make based on my input is a problem that an =
eighty-year old speaker of a vanishing First Nations language =
doesn=E2=80=99t have to contend with to share her knowledge and preserve =
her culture for her people. In Canadian First Nations communities the =
strongest correlation with a low suicide rate is not employment, not =
health, not educational attainment but knowledge of the cultural =
language. This work is transferrable to save languages and lives.
=20
Reason #4: Practice
Same reason every IT-minded beginner makes his own parser. It=E2=80=99s =
a fun challenge to my skills as a teacher and a Klingon speaker to =
tailor examples that the machine can learn from.=20
=20
Reason #5: Fun=20
Same answer as you would give to someone who said, =E2=80=9CWhy are you =
working so hard to attain skills in a language that isn=E2=80=99t spoken =
anywhere?=E2=80=9D
Reason #6: Transference
To drown out my fury that I spent almost of my Klingon time last year =
working on an online course that no one can take. Do you object to that =
too, on the grounds that if more people learn to speak Klingon it will =
dilute the status of your rare skill?
- Qov
From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com]=20
Sent: March 19, 2015 4:01
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh text for Bing
=20
Why are we working so hard to make our skill with the language obsolete?
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 19, 2015, at 3:40 AM, Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca> wrote:
I=E2=80=99ve just realized that the paq=E2=80=99batlh text is not =
included in the Bing corpus. If anyone has English and Klingon parallel =
text in electronic form, this would be a great asset to the engine. The =
ideal form would be two files, one English, one Klingon, one sentence =
per line aligned line-by-line, but whatever you have will help.=20
I already own the paper version, and the sentences will not be available =
to Bing users: they are digested by the engine, so sharing should not be =
a copyright violation.
- Qov
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Reason #1: Improving the worst Klingon on the net, as well as the =
best.<br><br>You know how when a friend or relative sends you greetings =
in =E2=80=9CKlingon=E2=80=9D or you come across a web page or a press =
release that someone has =E2=80=9Ctranslated=E2=80=9D with Mr. Klingon =
and you just want to reach through the Internet and [TE/KI]LL them? =
=C2=A0Or when a TV show has characters speak =E2=80=9CKlingon=E2=80=9D =
but they haven=E2=80=99t bothered to do any research so it=E2=80=99s =
word for word English and you have to hurt your brain to understand it? =
Imagine if that were replaced by clumsy, mechanical but recognizable =
Klingon, of the sort turned out by a reasonably intelligent beginner who =
has done a first readthrough of TKD?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>It=E2=80=99s still going to need work by an expert to be good =
Klingon, but it will be closer to Klingon than to =
gibberish.<br><br>Reason #2: Publicity<br><br>Internet person plays with =
Bing Translator: =E2=80=9CWait, I can translate in and out of Klingon? =
Klingon is real?=C2=A0 There=E2=80=99s a link here .. <click> new =
message to mailing list ... =E2=80=98</span>qavan guys, bing mughwI' =
vItu' DaHjaj. tlhIngan qar Hol?=E2=80=99=E2=80=9D (That=E2=80=99s the =
actual output from the public version of Bing for =E2=80=9CHi guys, I =
found the Bing translator today. Is Klingon really a language?=E2=80=9D =
The private one continues to improve, but I have a few more things to =
fix up before it replaces the live one).<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Reason #3: =
Language preservation<br><br>Klingonists are articulate and computer =
savvy, yet speak a language that s very unlike English. Every problem =
with the engine that I find and every improvement that they make based =
on my input is a problem that an eighty-year old speaker of a vanishing =
First Nations language doesn=E2=80=99t have to contend with to share her =
knowledge and preserve her culture for her people. In Canadian First =
Nations communities the strongest correlation with a low suicide rate is =
not employment, not health, not educational attainment but knowledge of =
the cultural language. This work is transferrable to save languages and =
lives.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Reason #4: Practice<br><br>Same reason every IT-minded =
beginner makes his own parser. It=E2=80=99s a fun challenge to my skills =
as a teacher and a Klingon speaker to tailor examples that the machine =
can learn from. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Reason #5: =
Fun <br>Same answer as you would give to someone who said, =E2=80=9CWhy =
are you working so hard to attain skills in a language that =
isn=E2=80=99t spoken anywhere?=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><br>Reason #6: Transference<br>To drown out my fury =
that I spent almost of my Klingon time last year working on an online =
course that no one can take. Do you object to that too, on the grounds =
that if more people learn to speak Klingon it will dilute the status of =
your rare skill?<br><br>- Qov<br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid =
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lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> lojmIt =
tI'wI' nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> March 19, =
2015 4:01<br><b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tlhingan-hol] paq'batlh text for =
Bing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Why are =
we working so hard to make our skill with the language =
obsolete?<br><br>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On Mar 19, 2015, at =
3:40 AM, Robyn Stewart <<a =
href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I=E2=80=99ve just realized =
that the paq=E2=80=99batlh text is not included in the Bing corpus. If =
anyone has English and Klingon parallel text in electronic form, this =
would be a great asset to the engine.</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> The ideal form would be =
two files, one English, one Klingon, one sentence per line aligned =
line-by-line, but whatever you have will help. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I already own the paper =
version, and the sentences will not be available to Bing users: they are =
digested by the engine, so sharing should not be a copyright =
violation.</span><br><br><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>- =
Qov</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhi=
ngan-hol mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol">http://mail.kl=
i.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote>=
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