[100146] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] tera' Hovtay'Daq PLUTO HurDaq bIHtaH'a' latlh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com)
Tue Jan 20 12:54:46 2015
From: lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:54:38 -0500
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <ACF6622D959A8842A81E4471BA56A7E04BD5181D@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s very clear speech to stack modifiers =
in that style. We have clearer options:
cha=E2=80=99 yuQmey DItu=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99bogh
If you really want to use {lath}, I=E2=80=99d go with {yuQmey=E2=80=99e=E2=
=80=99 cha=E2=80=99 latlh tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99}.
As for the other stuff you are asking about with {lath}, I think we are =
best served to remember that {latlh} is not an adjective in Klingon. =
It=E2=80=99s a noun.=20
I think we get confused sometimes by terms like {tlhIngan Hol} get =
translated as if it were [adjective noun]. It=E2=80=99s not [adjective =
noun]. It=E2=80=99s [possessor-noun possessed-noun]. A Klingon is a =
person. {tlhIngan Hol} is =E2=80=9Ca Klingon=E2=80=99s language=E2=80=9D. =
We translate it as =E2=80=9Cthe Klingon Language=E2=80=9D because =
that=E2=80=99s how we say it in English, but {tlhIngan} is never an =
adjective. Neither is {latlh}.
So, for =E2=80=9CThere are other Klingons here,=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99d be =
much happier with {tlhInganpu=E2=80=99=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 naDev =
latlhpu=E2=80=99 tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99} than with {naDev latlh =
tlhInganpu=E2=80=99 tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99}.
I think that as a community, we=E2=80=99ve gotten sloppy with {latlh} =
because we want to use it like {tlhIngan} in {tlhIngan Hol} and treat it =
like an adjective in our translations without checking to make sure that =
it actually makes sense as a noun.=20
It=E2=80=99s a noun. We can=E2=80=99t forget that inconvenient truth. =
The definition is =E2=80=9C(noun) additional one, another one=E2=80=9D =
and we keep wanting to eliminate the word =E2=80=9Cone=E2=80=9D from it =
and use it to mean =E2=80=9C(adjective) additional, another=E2=80=9D.
I hope this trend doesn=E2=80=99t succeed and we start acquiring a new =
kind of chuvmey that precedes a noun and acts like an adjective. We =
already have {Hoch} being treated like this as often as not, and =
numbers, of course...
lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh
Retired Door Repair Guy
> On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> =
wrote:
>=20
> =20
> =E2=80=9CTwo more planets in our Solar System, say astronomers=E2=80=9D
> =
http://news.yahoo.com/two-more-planets-solar-system-astronomers-134043845.=
html =
<http://news.yahoo.com/two-more-planets-solar-system-astronomers-134043845=
.html>
> =20
> =20
> =20
> P.S. Hmm=E2=80=A6. =E2=80=9Ctwo more planets=E2=80=9D: ?{latlh =
cha=E2=80=99 yuQmey} or ?{cha=E2=80=99 latlh yuQmey}?=20
> {latlh} can refer to plural nouns =E2=80=93 {latlh tlhInganpu=E2=80=99, =
latlhpu', Heghpu'bogh latlhpu=E2=80=99} =E2=80=93 but I=E2=80=99ve never =
seen it used with a specific number.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s very clear =
speech to stack modifiers in that style. We have clearer =
options:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">cha=E2=80=
=99 yuQmey DItu=E2=80=99pu=E2=80=99be=E2=80=99bogh</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">If you really want to =
use {lath}, I=E2=80=99d go with {yuQmey=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 cha=E2=80=99 =
latlh tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99}.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As for the other stuff you are asking =
about with {lath}, I think we are best served to remember that {latlh} =
is not an adjective in Klingon. It=E2=80=99s a noun. </div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think we get confused =
sometimes by terms like {tlhIngan Hol} get translated as if it were =
[adjective noun]. It=E2=80=99s not [adjective noun]. It=E2=80=99s =
[possessor-noun possessed-noun]. A Klingon is a person. {tlhIngan Hol} =
is =E2=80=9Ca Klingon=E2=80=99s language=E2=80=9D. We translate it as =
=E2=80=9Cthe Klingon Language=E2=80=9D because that=E2=80=99s how we say =
it in English, but {tlhIngan} is never an adjective. Neither is =
{latlh}.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So, =
for =E2=80=9CThere are other Klingons here,=E2=80=9D I=E2=80=99d be much =
happier with {tlhInganpu=E2=80=99=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 naDev latlhpu=E2=80=99=
tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99} than with {naDev latlh tlhInganpu=E2=80=99 =
tu=E2=80=99lu=E2=80=99}.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I think that as a community, we=E2=80=99ve gotten sloppy with =
{latlh} because we want to use it like {tlhIngan} in {tlhIngan Hol} and =
treat it like an adjective in our translations without checking to make =
sure that it actually makes sense as a noun. </div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">It=E2=80=99s a noun. We =
can=E2=80=99t forget that inconvenient truth. The definition is =
=E2=80=9C(noun) additional one, another one=E2=80=9D and we keep wanting =
to eliminate the word =E2=80=9Cone=E2=80=9D from it and use it to mean =
=E2=80=9C(adjective) additional, another=E2=80=9D.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I hope this trend =
doesn=E2=80=99t succeed and we start acquiring a new kind of chuvmey =
that precedes a noun and acts like an adjective. We already have {Hoch} =
being treated like this as often as not, and numbers, of =
course...</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">
lojmIt tI=E2=80=99wI=E2=80=99 nuv =E2=80=98utlh<div class=3D"">Retired =
Door Repair Guy</div>
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jan 20, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Steven Boozer <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu" =
class=3D"">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D"">=E2=80=9CTwo =
more planets in our Solar System, say astronomers=E2=80=9D<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://news.yahoo.com/two-more-planets-solar-system-astronomers-13=
4043845.html" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">http://news.yahoo.com/two-more-planets-solar-system-astronomers=
-134043845.html</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D""> </o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">P.S. Hmm=E2=80=A6. =E2=80=9Ctwo more =
planets=E2=80=9D: ?{latlh cha=E2=80=99 yuQmey} or ?{cha=E2=80=99 =
latlh yuQmey}? <o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">{latlh} can refer to plural nouns =E2=80=93 {latlh =
tlhInganpu=E2=80=99, latlhpu', Heghpu'bogh latlhpu=E2=80=99} =E2=80=93 =
but I=E2=80=99ve never seen it used with a specific number.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">--<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Voragh<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, =
sans-serif;" class=3D"">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D""> </o:p></div></div><span style=3D"font-family: =
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!important;" =
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