[6018] in RedHat Linux List
Re: Thats it...(long)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Sheldon E. Newhouse)
Mon Nov 25 13:46:27 1996
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:49:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Sheldon E. Newhouse" <sen1@math.msu.edu>
To: redhat-list@redhat.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961125090143.19277B-100000@fubar.cs.montana.edu>
Resent-From: redhat-list@redhat.com
Reply-To: redhat-list@redhat.com
On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Mike Wangsmo wrote:
> I don't know who started and contributed to this thread, as I usually
> do not follow these WORTHLESS threads, however.... I have had it with
> you whiny babies about *support*!!!!!
The original thread was not "WORTHLESS." It was an expression of
frustration which, I gather, is shared by quite a few new users.
> > > I conquer, I also have sent some requests to RedHat, with no response,
> > > they acknowlaged my request, and I recieved no reply. I'm just luck I
> > > have this chat group and my technical staff, or I would be doomed.
>
> I have been on this list for a very long time and I have seen
> unbeliveablly stupid questions answered time and again, most of those
> answers have a ****@redhat.com address attached to them.
Again, what appears to be stupid to an expert or long time unix user is
not stupid to a new user. Unix is time-consuming and complicated.
Actually, any decent OS is. We were all new at one time, and it took some
time to get enough expertise to be able to work through and solve typical
problems.
>As far as I
> know, Redhat has been one of the champions of moving Linux from the
> stages of use at your own risk via anonymous ftp to a full fledge,
> commercially supported product. And I do mean supported!! I have
> corresponded many times with Donnie and he has always given fast, acurate
> answers to problems.
I agree for the most part here.
> I don't know what else you want for support? I
> suppose maybe you you all prefer Microsoft's version of support. Call a
> toll free number spend half an hour getting switched from one electronic
> operator to the next. Finally you *may* get somebody with access to a
> database terminal to try and lead you through your own problem. If you
> are not willing to suffer that, then you can call Uncle Bill's $35
> hotline (1-900-......) and then you get right through and get a very
> competent person to solve your problem, but you spent an additional $35
> on top of purchasing your OS.
>
> I can't imagine any question that you could ask and NOT get a rapid reply
> via this list!!!! Redhat pays money to operate this list (and the others
> that they have) as well as support some of their employees to monitor and
> participate (ie. Donnie Barnes). What else do you want????? Any
> form of UNIX requires some level of computational profficiency to install
> and maintain. Remember that as the installer and maintainer of a full
> fledged UNIX system you are a SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR, not an end user. I
> have found that about 75% of the questions asked on this list are found
> in printed form via either books on Linux (which every Linux user should
> have several of), FAQ's which appearantly most choose to NOT look at for
> help, or in the archives of this list. Anybody remember how many folks
> asked about broken flock() emulation when 1.3.78 came out? It seemed to
> go on and on and on and... Why???? Because people refused to READ
> README's, FAQ's, etc. etc. etc.
>
Some don't have the time or expertise to get what they need out of the
FAQ's, etc.
> I have found that Redhat's setup, installation, and maintence for Linux
> to be the best availible for folks that aren't terribly familiar with
> UNIX. I suppose that is why Caldera adopted their platform instead of
> developing their own.
>
> The short of all of this is the following:::
>
> WE SHOULD ALL APPLAUDE REDHAT'S EFFORTS TO MAKE LINUX COMMERCIALLY
> VIABLE!
I agree.
There seems to be a public relations problem. When I started with
Linux, it was with Slackware 2.3. I did not expect any support. It was
a trial for me, e.g. even umsdos. I had much experience with UNIX on
SUNS and wanted to see if UNIX on PC's was worth anything at all.
It took much effort and time to get things up and working, but that is a
sort of hobby for me. It's not my real job (Most of my colleagues don't
know about or care about Linux!). It's done for fun as much as
usefulness, and not for profit.
When I bought RH 3.0.3, I would have been satisfied with being told that
this was in development and that support was available through various
mailing lists staffed by users as well as developers. However, I was
told by the sales reps that I would get support directly from RH via
e-mail. That was the source of frustration for me. It took about a week
to get simple questions answered. If I had been in business and depended
on this, I probably would have gotten off RH, gone back to Slackware,
or chosen some commercial UNIX. But, that was not the case for me, so I
stuck it out, and got to the point where I liked, respected, and
functionally used RH 3.0.3. It was one very good product. This occurred
around March-April, 1996.
Recently, I bought Applixware, (more expensive, less support). I tried the
list, but the user base is much smaller and with much less expertise. I
did not get answers to questions posted on the support@redhat channel at
all (even after 2,3 weeks). I finally sent Erik Troan a personal
message with a question and got a satisfactory answer.
That is *NOT* the way it should be. In trying to be a good citizen on
this list, I *don't* want to send e-mail questions to Donnie or
Erik directly, but that seems to be the only way to get reasonably
fast answers. It is not good for them, and it is not good for RH for them
to be inundated by simple questions. I would expect that RH is trying
very hard to deal with this problem.
The current default situation seems to be the route I took.
One first tries to get support from the RH lists. Failing that,
one goes to the real experts. I'm not sure what the best way to
deal with this problem is, but it is a serious problem and will
continue to be one as RH gets more and more users.
-sen
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| Sheldon E. Newhouse | e-mail: sen1@math.msu.edu |
| Mathematics Department | |
| Michigan State University | telephone: 517-355-9684 |
| E. Lansing, MI 48824-1027 USA | FAX: 517-432-1562 |
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