[23472] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Toast Song Argument Reflections...
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kathryn Rose Thorsen)
Sun Jan 19 18:33:39 2003
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:16:50 -0500
Reply-To: Kathryn Rose Thorsen <blackbird@THEPOND.COM>
From: Kathryn Rose Thorsen <blackbird@THEPOND.COM>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <20030117201556.5357.qmail@web14302.mail.yahoo.com>
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To throw in my own two cents, I pledge Omicron Iota at Worcester Polytechnic
Institute. The school's demographics were 5:1 (male:female) when I pledged,
but the chapter's demographics were more 60/40 female/male. We sang "men
of", when it was brought up for discussion for '98 Nationals , they were
shocked and appalled that anyone would want to change it, and felt offended
that anyone out there thought that the song was excluding women! In my 4
years as an active, the question from a perspective over the "men of" part
only came up once, and we answered her by telling her that we were
originally all-male, but we keep it because of tradition, that women are
included in mankind, that almost every other foreign language when referring
to a mixed gendered group as the male plural, and used examples such as
Jessica used. You know what, that was good enough for her, and all the
perspectives that were there said "that makes sense", too. That particular
girl is still active and served as an officer (not sure if she still is...)
The point is that it came up as a question, probably as a hesitation. We
explained it calmly and logically and it was accepted, we didn't loose her.
Not to completely sound like a dorky stay in school ad, but education really
is liberating.
And to copy Chris a little (same site)....I definitely like the example for
the individual person.....
man
1 a (1) : an individual human; especially : an adult male human (2) : a man
belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, membership, or
occupation) -- usually used in combination <councilman>
b : the human race : MANKIND
c : a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens) that is anatomically related to
the great apes but distinguished especially by notable development of the
brain with a resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract
reasoning, is usually considered to form a variable number of freely
interbreeding races, and is the sole representative of a natural family
(Hominidae); broadly : any living or extinct member of this family
2 a : INDIVIDUAL, PERSON <a man could get killed there> b : the individual
who can fulfill or who has been chosen to fulfill one's requirements <she's
your man>
You can take my comments or leave them, but having sat on the floor of 2
National Conventions as a voting delegate and the Toast Song issues actually
came up on the floor, I truly don't believe that the majority of this
Fraternity wants to change the Toast Song. And for a Fraternity that is
primarily women, THAT is saying something.
YiLFS,
Katie Thorsen
Omicron Iota Alumna
WPI '01
-----Original Message-----
From: Alpha Phi Omega Discussion List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU]On
Behalf Of Jessica
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 3:16 PM
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Subject: Re: [APO-L] Toast Song Argument Reflections...
The Declaration of Independence states, "All Men Are Created Equal"
I don't take this to mean that I, as a woman, am somehow not created with
this same "equality" as the males in our country. I instead take "men" to
mean "mankind".
Likewise the "men of" in our toast song and use of the term "brothers"
does not mean to me that I need to have the body of a man to fit into these
categories in our fraternity.
I earned my admittance into this brotherhood through a pledge period the
same as anyone else. I learned the history and traditions of the group; I
met and got to know the brothers of my chapter. I took the cardinal
principles of Alpha Phi Omega into my head, and my heart. The fraternity
then accepted me as their brother, and now gives me every chance to become
anything I want within the sectional, regional, and n! ational brotherhood.
I amnot discriminated against; the fact that I am female does not
differenciate me from my male brothers in any way.
These facts show me that the terms "men" or "brothers" are just words. To
the brothers of APO, they dont mean "a human being with the reproductive
system of a male". They mean closeness, kinship, fellowship, trust,
comradeship. They mean that even though we are different, we are still the
same. We have a connection that most people never have with others, much
less so many diverse others, spread across such a large area. We have
something very special.
We also have tradition. And that is what the toast song is, its why we
call each other "brothers" and why APO is a "fraternity". We pay homage to
the founders of this amazing group we belong to, we unite ourselves through
the traditions we share. Changing the words of the toast song would not
change how we already feel in our hearts, it would only bring our group one
! step farther away from our roots.
Anyway, thats my t! ake on it.
~~Jessica Mikes, Delta Sigma, UConn Active Brother
"Ronald, e-mail's for geeks and pedophiles. Be romantic. Write her another
letter.?~~SEBASTIAN VALMONT, "Cruel Intentions"
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003>To=20
throw in my own two cents, I pledge Omicron Iota at Worcester =
Polytechnic=20
Institute. The school's demographics were 5:1 (male:female) when I =
pledged, but the chapter's demographics were more 60/40 =
female/male. We=20
sang "men of", when it was brought up for discussion for '98 Nationals , =
they=20
were shocked and appalled that anyone would want to change it, and felt =
offended=20
that anyone out there thought that the song was excluding women! =
In my 4=20
years as an active, the question from a perspective over the "men of" =
part only=20
came up once, and we answered her by telling her that we were originally =
all-male, but we keep it because of tradition, that women are included =
in=20
mankind, that almost every other foreign language when referring to a =
mixed=20
gendered group as the male plural, and used examples such as =
Jessica=20
used. You know what, that was good enough for her, and all the=20
perspectives that were there said "that makes sense", too. That =
particular=20
girl is still active and served as an officer (not sure if she still=20
is...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003>The=20
point is that it came up as a question, probably as a =
hesitation. We=20
explained it calmly and logically and it was accepted, we didn't loose=20
her. Not to completely sound like a dorky stay in school ad, but =
education=20
really is liberating.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003> And to copy Chris a little (same =
site)....I=20
definitely like the example for the individual =
person.....</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003><FONT=20
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">man</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003><FONT=20
size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><B>1 a =
</B>(1) <B>:</B>=20
an individual human; <I>especially</I> <B>:</B> an adult male human (2) =
<B>:</B>=20
a man belonging to a particular category (as by birth, residence, =
membership, or=20
occupation) -- usually used in combination <council<I>man</I>>=20
</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3><B>b</B> =
<B>:</B> the human=20
race </FONT><B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3>: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&v=
a=3Dmankind"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>MANKIND</FONT></A></B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3>=20
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3><B>c</B> =
<B>:</B> a bipedal=20
primate mammal (<I>Homo sapiens</I>) that is anatomically related to the =
great=20
apes but distinguished especially by notable development of the brain =
with a=20
resultant capacity for articulate speech and abstract reasoning, is =
usually=20
considered to form a variable number of freely interbreeding races, and =
is the=20
sole representative of a natural family (Hominidae); <I>broadly</I> =
<B>:</B> any=20
living or extinct member of this family =
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3><B>2 a</B> =
</FONT><B><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D3>: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&v=
a=3Dindividual"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>INDIVIDUAL</FONT></A><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3>, =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=3DDictionary&v=
a=3Dperson"><FONT=20
size=3D-1>PERSON</FONT></A></B><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D3> <a =
<I>man</I> could=20
get killed there> <B>b</B> <B>:</B> the individual who can fulfill or =
who has=20
been chosen to fulfill one's requirements <she's your=20
<I>man</I>></FONT></FONT><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003>You=20
can take my comments or leave them, but having sat on the floor of 2 =
National=20
Conventions as a voting delegate and the Toast Song issues actually =
came up=20
on the floor, I truly don't believe that the majority of this Fraternity =
wants=20
to change the Toast Song. And for a Fraternity that is primarily =
women,=20
THAT is saying something.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003>YiLFS,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003>Katie=20
Thorsen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D741154815-19012003>Omicron Iota Alumna</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D741154815-19012003>WPI=20
'01</DIV></SPAN></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Alpha Phi Omega =
Discussion=20
List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>Jessica<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 17, 2003 3:16 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APO-L] Toast Song =
Argument=20
Reflections...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><SPAN class=3Dpostbody>The Declaration of Independence states, "All =
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Men</SPAN> Are Created Equal"<BR><BR>I =
don't take=20
this to mean that I, as a woman, am somehow not created with this same =
"equality" as the males in our country. I instead take "men" to mean=20
"mankind". <BR><BR>Likewise the "<SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">men =
of</SPAN>" in our toast song and use of the term "<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">brothers</SPAN>" does not mean to me that =
I need to=20
have the body of a man to fit into these categories in our fraternity. =
<BR><BR>I earned my admittance into this brotherhood through a pledge =
period=20
the same as anyone else. I learned the history and traditions of the =
group; I=20
met and got to know the brothers of my chapter. I took the cardinal =
principles=20
of Alpha Phi Omega into my head, and my heart. The fraternity then =
accepted me=20
as their brother, and now gives me every chance to become anything I =
want=20
within the sectional, regional, and n! ational brotherhood. <BR><BR>I =
amnot=20
discriminated against; the fact that I am female does not =
differenciate me=20
from my male brothers in any way. <BR><BR>These facts show me that the =
terms=20
"men" or "brothers" are just words. To the brothers of APO, they dont =
mean "a=20
human being with the reproductive system of a male". They mean =
closeness,=20
kinship, fellowship, trust, comradeship. They mean that even though we =
are=20
different, we are still the same. We have a connection that most =
people never=20
have with others, much less so many diverse others, spread across such =
a large=20
area. We have something very special. <BR><BR>We also have tradition. =
And that=20
is what the toast song is, its why we call each other "brothers" and =
why APO=20
is a "fraternity". We pay homage to the founders of this amazing group =
we=20
belong to, we unite ourselves through the traditions we share. =
Changing the=20
words of the toast song would not change how we already feel in our =
hearts, it=20
would only bring our group one ! step farther away from our roots.=20
<BR><BR>Anyway, thats my t! ake on it.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3Dpostbody>~~Jessica Mikes, Delta Sigma, UConn Active=20
Brother<BR></P></SPAN><BR><BR>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>
<ADDRESS><EM><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"><FONT =
size=3D+0><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"><FONT color=3D#bf005f><FONT =
size=3D2>"Ronald,=20
e-mail's for geeks and pedophiles. Be romantic. Write her another=20
letter.?~~SEBASTIAN VALMONT, <EM>"Cruel Intentions"</EM> </FONT><IMG=20
src=3D"http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys/m.gif"=20
NOSEND=3D"1"></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></EM></ADDRESS></DIV>
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Do you Yahoo!?<BR><A=20
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