[23090] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] The "APQ Question"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (JayBEE!)
Fri Nov 1 14:42:27 2002
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Reply-To: JayBEE! <JayBEE@25-52.ZZN.COM>
From: JayBEE! <JayBEE@25-52.ZZN.COM>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
<html><head><meta Name='keywords' Content='commtouch, pronto, mail, free email, free, branded, web based, free web based email, communications, internet, software, advertising banners, e-mail, free software'></head><body ><div align='left'><font ><blockquote><blockquote><TT>JayBEE:<BR>
I impressed by your initial humbleness, I have got plenty to do, <BR>
but <BR>
I felt like your statements were worthy of knowledge. When a person<BR>
says... <BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
"While I don't claim to fulling understand what it is to be a Que..."<BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
It lends an avenue for open ears. And without them you can not <BR>
begin <BR>
to understand. Because with a close mind you can only create from <BR>
your<BR>
own imagination. Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
I have no problem with all-male chapters in APO. I, in fact, feel <BR>
that the Fraternity SHOULD allow for the establishment/re-<BR>
establishment <BR>
of all-male chapters, but ONLY in the case where the schools <BR>
administration requests/requires it. <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Thanks. Your open views are refreshing.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
Unfortunately, I am frankly sick and tired of some of the attitude <BR>
I see displayed by some Ques. I don't know if this shows a general <BR>
attitude amoung all Ques, or just of a small group. <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
It all depends on your version of what a Que is. No Ay-Phi-Que <BR>
would <BR>
ever call themselves simply a "Que" I can say that factually because<BR>
I know the nature of an Ay-Phi-Que. Some guys are just flustrated <BR>
beyond<BR>
repair. Others have patience, but also have hope. While still <BR>
others<BR>
have determined that because of the changes within, they've realized <BR>
Alpha<BR>
Phi Omega is not for them. Family becomes more important than an <BR>
organization that was preceived to be never in your corner because <BR>
you <BR>
were culturally out of sync with the majority.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
* APO is a diverse organization. We accept all, regardless of race, <BR>
creed, color, national origin, etc. My chapter is a good <BR>
illustration <BR>
of this. We have black, white, hispanic, asian, jewish, indian, etc <BR>
members in our chapter. So don't throw 'diversity' into the face of <BR>
APO. It won't work.<BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Brown. Have you been to any of the cultural events within any of <BR>
those<BR>
races or have you generally been to things that you like. I go back <BR>
to <BR>
something that I know you didn't understand. I went to school on a <BR>
campus<BR>
that basically looked white and black. And later I found out that <BR>
there<BR>
were several hundred asian, hispanic and a host of other <BR>
nationalities on <BR>
that same campus. 27 that It was. I began to realize that asians <BR>
and<BR>
hispanics have lives too. Outside of my world. They have to have a <BR>
place<BR>
of worship, and a place to entertain themselves. A place beyond my <BR>
vison.<BR>
Because they meet each other. And marry each other. My point is <BR>
that <BR>
everybody has a world that doesn't interest you. People are borned <BR>
into <BR>
these worlds. These worlds exist in front of you but you still may <BR>
not<BR>
see them. It's great to have racial diversity, but it is also great <BR>
to <BR>
have everybody doing what everybody wants to do within a culture as <BR>
well.<BR>
Yes we can have diversity at the level as we do within a chapter, <BR>
but why<BR>
don't we trust a individual group to have chapter of their own. <BR>
Especially while they have more incommon amoungst themselves than we <BR>
would<BR>
ever have with them. <BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
APO is co-ed. Its been co-ed since 1976. <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Man, you see If we had on the table to create a completely coed <BR>
organization<BR>
in 1976, do you think it would have been passed? In 1976, we <BR>
created female<BR>
membership. And gave chapters the right to determine there own <BR>
membership.<BR>
I know I'm right about that one. But I heard one guy state that in <BR>
1986, they<BR>
"re-affirmed" the 1976 decision. Which is Ludacris. What happen in <BR>
1976 <BR>
happened in 1976 and what happen in 1986 happened in 1986. <BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
It will not and cannot go back to being all-male. GET OVER IT!!! <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Right, All Ay-Phi-Ques know this. Mentioning this here is totally<BR>
unneccessary. Ay-Phi-Ques should never ask for Alpha Phi Omega <BR>
National <BR>
Service Fraternity to be nothing more that what it is. It must have <BR>
been something just wanted to get off your chest. With the <BR>
organization<BR>
being 70 female at the undergraduate level, who can hope for it to <BR>
be <BR>
anything less that what it is, an organization of brothers.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
You complain about 'us' not recognizing the great history and <BR>
traditions <BR>
of APQ, well you need to learn the history of APO!<BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
And after that one page is read then what. I think it was a coed <BR>
brother<BR>
who stated that we should treasure the initial history books. I <BR>
personaly <BR>
have an interest to read the history book that what published in <BR>
1927. But<BR>
I have some history that have 8 pages more than we have in our <BR>
current pledge<BR>
manuals. With all the females who are in Alpha Phi Omega, I think <BR>
it was <BR>
great that they mentioned them in the manual as well. Of course, I <BR>
wouldn't<BR>
have done it at the expense of the fraternity history.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
We are ALL Brothers in APO. Accept it. I was less then pleased <BR>
with the <BR>
emails sent out about Joel Bryant which only addressed Joel as <BR>
a "Brother" <BR>
and ignored the other four Brothers named in it as such. <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Brown, wasn't Joel the only brother that these accusations were <BR>
filed <BR>
against? Isn't his membership the item at hand. It may have been <BR>
the other<BR>
four brothers who send in a complaint. Maybe the information that <BR>
they <BR>
spoke of, they had know Idea that Joel would be hit like he was on a <BR>
most<BR>
wanted hit list.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
Actives run the Fraternity. <BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
No the national board runs this fraternity. Let me know otherwise. <BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
I'm not happy with what seems to be the general attitude from the <BR>
Ques <BR>
that alumni should be running the show.<BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
You have the "Ques" of Alpha Phi Omega pegged wrong. Alumni should <BR>
not <BR>
be "running the show" They are and will always be in an advisory <BR>
capacity.<BR>
Now the alumnistic National Board is another story. I think it <BR>
would be<BR>
nice to have an undgraduate Regional Director. Some how I don't <BR>
think that<BR>
was where you were going. <BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
Its the 21st Century, not the 1950s. One issue I do have in general <BR>
with <BR>
APQ's is their use of membership practices that either NEVER had a <BR>
place in <BR>
APO, or no longer have a place in APO. <BR>
<BR>
See I know you have to be an older brother. Because your <BR>
preconceived <BR>
notions are just that. You actually have an idea of how some <BR>
campuses <BR>
were in 80's and 70's I mean your view wasn't even taking place in <BR>
the 90's.<BR>
You speak like you know how every member became a member in the <BR>
APhiQ's<BR>
of Alpha Phi Omega. But I know you don't. Because I know how <BR>
plenty of <BR>
APhiQ's pledged. Somepeople think that you have to pledge hard to <BR>
get <BR>
dedicated brothers, that's what we have to be doing. Hard to <BR>
explain?<BR>
No. We just know how to pledge-in dedication. Is that the issue <BR>
here?<BR>
It is easy to stand outside a functioning pledge program to see how <BR>
it <BR>
works and say that something sinister must be going on. But how <BR>
about<BR>
really give the program a fair shake and investigate from within not <BR>
from<BR>
a clock tower. I know we are different races but you can't only pre <BR>
judge<BR>
from afar how real is it. It is only the pictures you create in <BR>
your <BR>
imagination. I'm a real dreamer, (movie style) so I would have a <BR>
problem<BR>
with some pledge styles as well if I go on just what stories I <BR>
heard. But <BR>
I'm a brother, not a brother-in-law. I deserve the same fair trial <BR>
by jury<BR>
as all the other brothers (Male and Female). Not "uh I heard <BR>
something<BR>
and it since the news made it to me then it must be true." This is <BR>
how <BR>
several chapters of Ay-Phi-que where removed. And you have to <BR>
believe <BR>
that it your national would be in your corner, since we are in the <BR>
same<BR>
organization. But in regions Ay-phi-que didn't have enought clout. <BR>
So until you walk the path, you can only hope to understand it. I <BR>
long <BR>
for time when there is general understanding and honest <BR>
investigations. <BR>
Because the result of non-fairness is frustrations by all involved.<BR>
I'm actually hearing fairy tales compared to what is really <BR>
happening.<BR>
"Pledgemaster" is not even a title that an Ay-Phi-Que chapter uses.<BR>
<BR>
Brown:<BR>
Get in line with how things work today, and you'll have a greater <BR>
accepance <BR>
from other APO Brothers.<BR>
<BR>
JayBEE:<BR>
Greater acceptance? I know of petitioning groups that have done <BR>
everything <BR>
that they need to do. Even put on a remarkable secional conference <BR>
in 1999, <BR>
and still haven't gotten chapter status. Acceptance, I don't think <BR>
is <BR>
desired. Wanting to be free to be who they want to be is more of <BR>
the desire<BR>
of the day. Because you know how often Alpha Phi Omega changes. <BR>
<BR>
Thanks for your open and honest opinions. I'm glad you admitted to <BR>
not <BR>
having a problem with undergraduates who want their chapter to be <BR>
all male.<BR>
Your statements were very interesting. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
To me, the issue of female membership should be up to the chapter or <BR>
the <BR>
campus. what ever an "Undergraduate" group decides their chapter to <BR>
be. That<BR>
simple freedom would get Alpha Phi Omega growing like wildfire. <BR>
However <BR>
growth is not the agenda. Being fully, totally and unanimously coed <BR>
might.<BR>
It would be great to open our membership to have no gender <BR>
specifics. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</TT><br><br><font><p align=left><TT>Humility is must be learned <BR>
(you have to want it to <BR>
acquire it), but Imperialism <BR>
is hereditary, (you have to <BR>
want to remove it from your <BR>
system).</TT><br>Get your Free 25/52 E-mail Account at http://25-52.zzn.com<br>____________________________________________________________<br>Get your own Free Web Email Service with POP access at http://www.zzn.com<br></blockquote></blockquote></div></font></body></html>
