[21176] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] What is our "Bread" abd "Butter"?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard E Vehlow, P.E.)
Wed Sep 13 17:49:30 2000
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Message-Id: <NEBBLDFFILDEAGBGPJEAGEHOCAAA.vehlor@rpi.edu>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:50:32 -0400
Reply-To: "Richard E Vehlow, P.E." <vehlor@RPI.EDU>
From: "Richard E Vehlow, P.E." <vehlor@RPI.EDU>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10009121506480.978-100000@penobscot.bbn.com>
Responses to Steven Crawford and John Grossi:
>> Maybe it is time for a Constitutional Convention. Give the Actives of
this
>> Fraternity a chance to sit down and think about (and possible
change/redo)
>> everything, not just go to a National Convention and approve amendments
>> that are mostly written by Alumni and National Committees comprised of
>> mostly Alumni.
>One needs to correctly frame the question. The question is not why a few
>actives like Rich Vehlow submit so much, or why "the alumni" submit so
>much, but why do the students submit so little?
Actually, John, I have sorta "retired" from active status as of this
semester, going associate to take on new challenges and endeavors in APO and
in my professional and personal life. (I went associate since I am still
enrolled as a student in RPI's MBA program). But I am still an active
participant in discussion and some activities of this fraternity. I hope to
be in Philly and I am submitting legislation.
I find that the system works for the most part at nationals. I do have a few
qualms in the past, such as the whole 1998 submission screwup, but overall
the system is functioning. Some of my amendments will aim to improve it even
more, in my opinion.
What I feel amendment authors should do is between mid-October and
mid-December is use APO-L to present and discuss issues that would be coming
up for a vote, and any voting delegates or interested brothers should log
in, read and/or participate. That way, they walk into the legislative room
in Philly with an educated background on at least some issues that they can
weigh with further discussion on the floor to reach a decision. I find that
aside from the normal toast song and all-male chapter debates that happen
EVERY fall preceding a nationals, not many people other than me seek to
discuss other proposals on the table.
>> On a side note, I think the reason why so few Actives submit legislation
to
>> the National Convention is because the deadline is in late September when
>> the semester is just really getting going for most people.
>I would hazard to take a different, possibly unpopular view, the students
>submit legislation on what effects them. The works of some esoteric
>committee whose paper work gets filed in the circular file... isn't worth
>the effort. It's also the fact that people need time before they are
>comfortable enough in the organization to propose changes. Will you
>propose changes as a pledge? (I don't think you can) How about your first
>semester as a Brother? (If you know what a Section Chair is your doing
>good at that point) By the time your around a couple of years your well
>enough versed in the structure of our distributed organization to know how
>it works, see it's difficencies, and propose corrections. Of course by
>this time your also likely an alumni already... remember the average
>active life of a brother is 18 months. SO in the end for a student to
>submit legislation you've got to meet the; "it effects me enough that I
>care, I know what it is, how to change it, and what I want to change it
>to."
People, consider John's above statement the next time you come up to me at
Nationals amused at my 10, 15 or 20 amendments. Take the time and read the
rationales with each proposal and understand that there's more to it than
having fun.
And I have been involved with APO since Spring 1988. I did not submit stuff
until 1992, and that was a few humorous submissions. I did not submit
serious stuff en masse until 1994.
> Now pair that with Pete Fagan's comments about the status of APO
>in the priority list of people's lives and it becomes very clear why the
>alumni are submitting the bulk of the legislation. The problem with this
>is that those alumni are the ones who most likely are happy with
>things the way they are. (Remember these people must be fairly happy if
>they've stuck around 6,7 or more years)
12.75 years and counting. I must be really happy! :)
> Now follow back to Hayim's comments... where do we go in the
>future? At this point, at least in my opinion we need look at ways to
>empower the students to set the organizations direction. (and in a way
>that's not scripted, or suggested by staff/alumni) Remember our goal is
>to get themn submitting the legislation. Partly this can be done through
>education. One of the other things, that should be looked at is, making
>the running of the fraternity something that is accessible to more people.
>The working of the national organization are a lot of times hidden by
>the miles that seperate and the dollars and time that need to be spent to
>be in the right place at the right time.
> Ponder for a moment the requirements and logisitics of our
>national convention. I remember hearing somewhere that only *six* cities
>in the US meet our logistical requirements. (Boston, the sixth largest
>city in the US doesn't meet those reqs) The National Convention is
>something that we are going to have to examine at some point very soon and
>make changes, because the cost of what we want, where we want is soon not
>going to be possible. The cost of a room is what? Now ponder the fact that
>it takes TWO YEARS once the bid is secured to pull it off... on top of the
>two years to bid it. (so unless your a freshman at the beginning of the
>process... your not going to see it happen as an active)
What are the 6 cities?
I am also a member of the US Junior Chamber of Commerce. I have never
planned any convention with them, nor have I even attended any convention of
theirs, but I do read the magazines I get, and if I am correct in my
numbers, they can get upwards of 4000-5000 delegates at their conventions,
the past three years of which they were at Las Vegas, Niagara Falls and
Chattanooga. Is Chattanooga a workable location for APO?
Last year, I also served as a voting rep at my union's convention (which
this year is just ending today). It was held in Rochester, and involved
about 1000 people, including US Senator Chuck Schumer and First Lady Hillary
Clinton. This year, it's in Syracuse.
Both of the above require large convention facilities, including a huge room
for voting and banquets. These lesser cities can pull it off with thousands
of people, why not us?
I think that APO should understand that we often get a steal in terms of
rates. I pay barely more for a room now at an APO convention than I did 10
years ago. Sometimes I feel that the decision on a Nationals site depends on
who's got the cheaper room, even though it may be a margin of a few dollars,
which is a drop in the bucket when compared with other costs, such as
AIRFARE. So maybe this criteria should change.
I first went to a Nationals when it was in St Louis. I was a Senior and
SAVED $ for the trip, which cost me over $700 total, including $450 in
airfare. Nowadays, I can shop smartly on the web and get a price a lot less
than that for airfare. So I think that anyone who wants to go will go and
can find a way to make it happen if they really put their mind and body to
it and their heart in it.
> That's one example... of a place where we can work on making the
>national fraternity more accessible to the average brother. Shorten the
>turn around, and deal with the time and money issues that are inherent in
>being at the right place at the right time.
Yes, and perhaps the fraternity should also think outside the box too. The
world changes every year, but APO still tries the same logistics for the
most part- the same financial models to plan Nationals, the same schedule,
often the same activities too.
-REV
