[43039] in Cypherpunks
Re: Exporting software doesn't mean exporting (was: Re: lp ?)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Peter D. Junger)
Tue Nov 7 08:08:56 1995
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Cc: perry@piermont.com
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 06 Nov 1995 23:05:56 EST."
<199511070405.XAA14913@jekyll.piermont.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 1995 08:03:35 -0500
From: "Peter D. Junger" <junger@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
"Perry E. Metzger" writes:
: "Peter D. Junger" writes:
:
: > If a Frenchman on vacation in the Riviera shows a copy of PGP sourcecode
: > to a German businessman there, that is literally a violation of the
: > ITAR.
:
: Where the hell did you get that idea?
From Section 120.17 of the ITAR which provides:
_Export_ means:
. . . .
(4) Disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or transfering
technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or
abroad . . . .
(And technical data is (baroquely) defined in Section 120.10 as
including certain software, including crytographic software.)
: The ITAR clearly does not apply
: to foreigners disclosing things to each other outside the United
: States.
Where the hell did you get that idea?
: I've read it and I can't see how it could possibly be so
: interpreted. I'm not a lawyer, but this interpretation is so bizarre
: as to be almost untenable. I can clearly see that a U.S. person
: talking about DES to a foreign person can be a violation under the
: language in the regulations, but there is no way on earth to interpret
: the regulations as applying to foreigners abroad talking to other
: foreigners outside the U.S.
Go read the section that I quoted again. Where is there an exception
for foreign persons who happen to be abroad?
: > Don't expect the ITAR to make any sense. And don't think that you can
: > apply logic to the ITAR and get logical results. It doesn't work that
: > way.
: I was under the impression, though, that the words meant what they
: said.
When did you change your mind?
--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
Internet: junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
