[105227] in Cypherpunks
Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Michael Hohensee)
Sun Nov 8 22:15:21 1998
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:09:46 -0500
From: Michael Hohensee <mah248@nyu.edu>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Reply-To: Michael Hohensee <mah248@nyu.edu>
Jim Choate wrote:
>
> Forwarded message:
>
> > Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:22:19 +0100
> > From: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
> > From: nicolo@mach.iavel.li
> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>
> > State is not "created" or "set up". This assumes in-born willingness and
> > desire of subjects to have a state, and that a state becomes because
> > so-called "people" need it. Or that having a state is somehow natural
> > order of things.
>
> Read the first paragraph of the Constitution of the US for a clear and
> present refutation of this thesis.
>
> > A state is just an extension of a tribal power structure, or, deeper
>
> No, state is an extension of monetary regulatory systems and the need to
> keep them stable for continued tribal power structure growth.
>
> A 'state' is nothing more than a set of laws, social institutions, and
> some level of respect for civil liberties.
A state is that organization which asserts that it has the right to
initiate force against other people (usually those who disobey it,
although this is not always the case).
The state is effective when it has sufficient power to back up that
assertion, otherwise it's a group of pompous, self-deluded nits.
The charter of the state is not identical to the state. Many have been
the times that a state's charter has been violated by the state, without
that state ceasing to exist.
Of course, if you want to define a state as its charter, then we'd have
to define the people running it as nothing more than a bunch of thugs,
who may or may not play by their own stated rules. In that case, we
should get rid of them.
> A society is what happens when these are put in place and operated upon by
> real live weird people.
A society is what happens when you put a bunch of people in contact with
one another. Society is not produced by a piece of paper. It is not
produced by the existance of one organization (although any organization
of people must, by its very nature, result in a society of those
people).
Society is produced by people interacting with one another.
Michael Hohensee
