[10173] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3766 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Sep 20 18:07:10 1998
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 98 15:00:22 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 20 Sep 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3766
Today's topics:
Re: any way to encrypt my script? bitnut1@my-dejanews.com
Re: any way to encrypt my script? bitnut1@my-dejanews.com
Re: any way to encrypt my script? <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Can I run Perl program regularly? (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
can't get DBD-Oracle to install khai@expert-market.com
Re: CGI <gellyfish@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
Re: CGI <samwang@freewwweb.com>
Checking if open dir contains a sub directory <sales@madm.com>
Re: even/odd numbers (John Moreno)
Re: even/odd numbers <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Re: even/odd numbers (Scott Stark)
Re: even/odd numbers (John Moreno)
Re: even/odd numbers (John Moreno)
Re: even/odd numbers (Josh Kortbein)
How to POST to a redirected page <sysop@millenia.com>
Re: How to POST to a redirected page <gellyfish@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
Re: How to POST to a redirected page <samwang@freewwweb.com>
Number Sort <splinter@monmouth.com>
Re: Number Sort (Larry Rosler)
Re: Number Sort (Matthew Bafford)
Re: Number Sort (Larry Rosler)
Re: Number Sort <garry@america.net>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <pats@acm.org>
Re: script: scriptMangle! (Chris Russo)
Re: Shell-scripts and #! ( big dilemma ) ! (David Malone)
Re: where is Date::Parse (CPAN.pm)? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: where is Date::Parse (CPAN.pm)? <rra@stanford.edu>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:32:05 GMT
From: bitnut1@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: any way to encrypt my script?
Message-Id: <6u3hn6$gn8$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>------------------------------------------------
> abigail@fnx.com:
> I also know how to read the Perl documentation.
>------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. All your knowledge does seem to come from only one
source - the Perl documentation.
Points for open-minded readers to consider:
1. I never said that Perl does not "compile" prior to execution.
That's why I advised some thread participants to learn reading.
2. Perl evangelists would have us believe that Perl is "ideal
for auto, home, business, parties, reunions, barbecue, etc.".
But, what they call "compilation" is actually "interpretation".
True compilation produces machine readable binary executable.
B.N.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:48:43 GMT
From: bitnut1@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: any way to encrypt my script?
Message-Id: <6u3imb$hn8$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>--------------------------------------
> tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen):
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
> ...
>--------------------------------------
No comprende? You'll never learn, will you?
I told you to stay in your cave.
Stop littering and keep your droppings to yourself.
B.N.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 12:22:40 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: any way to encrypt my script?
Message-Id: <yl67eilhbz.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
bitnut1 <bitnut1@my-dejanews.com> writes:
> 2. Perl evangelists would have us believe that Perl is "ideal for auto,
> home, business, parties, reunions, barbecue, etc.". But, what they call
> "compilation" is actually "interpretation". True compilation produces
> machine readable binary executable.
Actually, the term "interpreted" has a reasonably precise computer science
definition. It means that each line of the program is parsed as it is
executed, perhaps with some caching. This is true of everything from
interpreted BASIC clear through shell scripts, all of which are
legitimately interpreted code.
Perl is in an interesting grey area between traditional compilers and
traditional interpretors. It is, properly speaking, a language that
*compiles* to an internal representation, which is then *interpreted* at
runtime (much faster than a traditional interpretor). In other words,
it's both.
Another language sharing that feature is Java, which compiles to the JVM
and is then interpreted. Note that for sufficiently low-level internal
representations, the line between "interpretor" and "emulator" blurs quite
a lot.
Keep in mind that you can compile Perl to a machine-readable binary
executable if you want, provided you don't do too many cute module tricks.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: 21 Sep 1998 05:00:12 GMT
From: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
Subject: Re: Can I run Perl program regularly?
Message-Id: <6u4mgs$lac$1@news.cs.hut.fi>
Larry Rosler (lr@hpl.hp.com) wrote:
: while () {
: your_Perl_program();
: sleep(24 * 60 * 60);
: }
Or better yet
while (1) {
my $a=fork();
if ( $a== 0 )
{ your_program();
}
sleep ( 24*60*60);
# kill "SIG_TERM" $a; if you need to stop stuck proceses
}
--
_- Joonas Kekoni OH2MTF I -_
_-internet: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi I DO NOT EAT. -_
_-slowmail: j{mer{ntaival 7a176 I -_
_- 02150Espoo I It is a monitor -_
_- Finland/Europe I -_
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:22:44 GMT
From: khai@expert-market.com
Subject: can't get DBD-Oracle to install
Message-Id: <6u3o6j$nmq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
hello everyone,
i'm trying to install dbd-oracle-0.45 on a sco-unix release5, and i got this
error:
$ perl Makefile.PL
Can't load module DBI, dynamic loading not available in this perl.
(You may need to build a new perl executable which either supports
dynamic loading or has the DBI module statically linked into it.)
at Makefile.PL line 17
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 17.
two days ago, i tried to reinstall perl5.004 with dynamic loading and it
didn't compile. so i'm wondering how do you make dbi-0.87 to statically link
to perl so that dbd would compile. please email me at khai@my-dejanews.com
if you has a solution. thanks lots khai
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 19:21:06 GMT
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: CGI
Message-Id: <6u3kj2$mmc$2@mendelevium.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:49:26 -0400 Drew Simonis - US Internet Support <Care227@ibm.net> wrote:
> Anyone know a good reference book for CGI programming?
I have by my side here CGI Programming on the WWW by Shishir Gundavaram.
However this now is a little old and not perl specific and has one or two things
in that some people here would disagree with. I would suggest reading the
documentation for the CGI module that comes with most recent distributions
of Perl and probably the CGI specification available from:
<URL:http://hoohoo.ncsa.uiuc.edu>
In the end there is no real reference book for CGI - you should find an
implementation you like and then look at the reference for that.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@btinternet.com>
Some of your questions answered:
<URL:http://www.btinternet.com/~gellyfish/resources/wwwfaq.htm>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:42:40 -0500
From: Sam Wang <samwang@freewwweb.com>
Subject: Re: CGI
Message-Id: <36055AAF.FBADFFDA@freewwweb.com>
i use Perl CGI Programming: No experience required
by Erik Strom published by Sybex; not really a reference book, but i use
it for reference. it does have a nice glossary of the included perl
funcs that is more understandable than the camel book's but not as
detailed. it also has nice table of the %ENV keys.
Drew Simonis - US Internet Support wrote:
> Anyone know a good reference book for CGI programming?
>
> Regards
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:30:00 -0700
From: "Doyle Johnson" <sales@madm.com>
Subject: Checking if open dir contains a sub directory
Message-Id: <6u3stj$8sv$1@nnrp02.primenet.com>
Hi again,
I have looked at the faq, poured over the manual.. and Im at a loss for
how to check to see if a directory contains sub directories...
basically I need to open a directory, delete all files, if there is a sub
dir, open it, delete all files etc.. etc..
So if any one can tell me how to check to see if the contents of a
directory is a file or sub, please let me know.
Thanks
Doyle Johnson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:23:54 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <1dfmqcc.8jsdzxpp9ihzN@roxboro0-020.dyn.interpath.net>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc, sstark@informix.com (Scott Stark) writes:
> :BUT, call me stupid, yes *I KNOW* that if a number is divisible by 2 it's
> :even, but how do I say that in perl?
>
> Do you really not know what the division operator is in Perl? Honest?
> Have you looked in the perlop manpage?
>
> :If $num divided by 2 contains the string ".5" it's odd, else it's even?
> :Is there some math function in perl to determine if the result of
> :division is a whole number?
>
> Good good good! That's what I was looking for: the process in your
> brain that finds answers to things like this. And in fact, you've come
> up with a solution on your very own.
-snip bunch of ways to test for oddness-
> I really, really want to understand why people keep asking this
> question day in or day out. Right now, I am mystified at their mystery.
> Please help me out here.
Well, I can't speak for Stark (or anybody else who asks this question)
but I've always assumed that it was asked by people who didn't have any
programming experience. (int($num) / 2)*2 == $num should occur to
anybody that /does/ have programming experience (or some variation of
it).
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:45:31 GMT
From: Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <6u3hhq$47v$1@rand.dimensional.com>
[posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and mailed to the cited author]
In article <1dfmqcc.8jsdzxpp9ihzN@roxboro0-020.dyn.interpath.net>
phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) wrote:
> (int($num) / 2)*2 == $num
ObNitpick-
I believe you mean int($num / 2) * 2 == $num
dgris
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
`By about halfway through I was beginning to guess the
ending, but it still kind of surprised me.'
David Hatunen, talking about the movie Titanic
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 15:56:17 GMT
From: sstark@informix.com (Scott Stark)
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <6u38j1$hts1@webint.na.informix.com>
In article <6u1khv$7vb$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>, tchrist@mox.perl.com says...
Thanks very much for your detailed answer, it's really appreciated.
>Do you really not know what the division operator is in Perl? Honest?
>Have you looked in the perlop manpage?
Yes of course I know what the division operator is, that wasn't my question.
>I really, really want to understand why people keep asking this
>question day in or day out. Right now, I am mystified at their mystery.
>Please help me out here.
Well if people keep asking it day in and day out it probably ought to be in the
FAQ, which of course is where I first looked. Just keep in mind not all of us
here are experienced programmers and the logic you express in your solutions
isn't the same as one finds in a high school algebra class.
regards,
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:16:58 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <1dfnvrs.1ctm1h9jpy3zgN@roxboro0-010.dyn.interpath.net>
Scott Stark <sstark@informix.com> wrote:
> tchrist@mox.perl.com says...
>
> Thanks very much for your detailed answer, it's really appreciated.
>
> >Do you really not know what the division operator is in Perl? Honest?
> >Have you looked in the perlop manpage?
>
> Yes of course I know what the division operator is, that wasn't my
> question.
Ok, do you also know what the multiplication operator is? And have you
heard of type casting?
> >I really, really want to understand why people keep asking this question
> >day in or day out. Right now, I am mystified at their mystery. Please
> >help me out here.
>
> Well if people keep asking it day in and day out it probably ought to be
> in the FAQ, which of course is where I first looked. Just keep in mind not
> all of us here are experienced programmers and the logic you express in
> your solutions isn't the same as one finds in a high school algebra class.
As someone else pointed out - this isn't a perl question, it is a basic
mathematics question.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:16:56 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <1dfnvoz.1yzd2aufy2a4fN@roxboro0-010.dyn.interpath.net>
Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com> wrote:
> [posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and mailed to the cited author]
>
> In article <1dfmqcc.8jsdzxpp9ihzN@roxboro0-020.dyn.interpath.net>
> phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) wrote:
>
> > (int($num) / 2)*2 == $num
>
> ObNitpick-
>
> I believe you mean int($num / 2) * 2 == $num
Yep.
(( int($num / 2) * 2) == $num)
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 21:33:35 GMT
From: kortbein@iastate.edu (Josh Kortbein)
Subject: Re: even/odd numbers
Message-Id: <6u3sbf$ct6$1@news.iastate.edu>
John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
: > Well if people keep asking it day in and day out it probably ought to be
: > in the FAQ, which of course is where I first looked. Just keep in mind not
: > all of us here are experienced programmers and the logic you express in
: > your solutions isn't the same as one finds in a high school algebra class.
: As someone else pointed out - this isn't a perl question, it is a basic
: mathematics question.
As a mathematician-in-training, I'd like to point out that "modulus"
often isn't introduced for quote some time, depending on when one takes
which classes. If one takes algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus,
etc., without ever taking a "discrete math" course, it could be that
division modulo n might not even be introduced until a first course
in abstract algebra. Yes, the way it works is basic, but the idea
of something like the modulus operator is largely useless in lots of
mathematical situations.
Josh
--
Anyone who slaps a "this page is best viewed with Browser X" label
on a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the
Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written on
another computer, another word processor, or another network.
[Tim Berners-Lee in Technology Review, July 1996]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:09:56 -0700
From: "Brian Andrus" <sysop@millenia.com>
Subject: How to POST to a redirected page
Message-Id: <6u3gd6$n1l$1@supernews.com>
How can I set variables in PERL and then use the POST method to send them to
another script or cgi?
I want to receive data from a form, process some of it and then pass control
to an ASP page to do more processing that cannot be done easily with PERL. I
want to use the POST method to keep the variables hidden from the user so
the URL that shows up in their browser does not have
?somevar=23&othervar=guess or some such appended to the URL.
Brian Andrus
sysop@millenia.com
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 19:13:04 GMT
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: How to POST to a redirected page
Message-Id: <6u3k40$mmc$1@mendelevium.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:09:56 -0700 Brian Andrus <sysop@millenia.com> wrote:
> How can I set variables in PERL and then use the POST method to send them to
> another script or cgi?
> I want to receive data from a form, process some of it and then pass control
> to an ASP page to do more processing that cannot be done easily with PERL. I
> want to use the POST method to keep the variables hidden from the user so
> the URL that shows up in their browser does not have
> ?somevar=23&othervar=guess or some such appended to the URL.
Steady on boy, what thinks you that you cant do something in Perl that
ASP cant do?
However if you must you can use the LWP::* (libwww-perl) modules available
from CPAN.
Oh by the way that is "Perl" when speaking of the language or "perl" when
speaking of the Interpreter but never PERL - that speaks of acronym.
I would be interested in seeing something that ASP cant do that Perl can't
though if you'd like to mail me an example.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@btinternet.com>
Some of your questions answered:
<URL:http://www.btinternet.com/~gellyfish/resources/wwwfaq.htm>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:03:14 -0500
From: Sam Wang <samwang@freewwweb.com>
Subject: Re: How to POST to a redirected page
Message-Id: <36055171.284D28DB@freewwweb.com>
check out LWP's post subroutine. there's a bunch of useful http subs in there,
and then some.
Brian Andrus wrote:
> How can I set variables in PERL and then use the POST method to send them to
> another script or cgi?
>
> I want to receive data from a form, process some of it and then pass control
> to an ASP page to do more processing that cannot be done easily with PERL. I
> want to use the POST method to keep the variables hidden from the user so
> the URL that shows up in their browser does not have
> ?somevar=23&othervar=guess or some such appended to the URL.
>
> Brian Andrus
> sysop@millenia.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:37:26 -0400
From: "Matt" <splinter@monmouth.com>
Subject: Number Sort
Message-Id: <6u3mbu$bmh$1@news.monmouth.com>
Hi,
How would I take an array which looks like this...
@anarray = ('number | some text | some text | some text ' , ' number | some
text | some text ');
and make it sort each "record" by the number in the front. I need it sorted
from smallest to greatest and placed back into that array.
Thanks.
-Matt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:16:48 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Number Sort
Message-Id: <MPG.106f02875d2d992c989876@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and copy mailed.]
In article <6u3mbu$bmh$1@news.monmouth.com> on Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:37:26
-0400, Matt <splinter@monmouth.com> says...
...
> @anarray = ('number | some text | some text | some text ' , ' number | some
> text | some text ');
>
> and make it sort each "record" by the number in the front. I need it sorted
> from smallest to greatest and placed back into that array.
FAQ alert! perlfaq4: "How do I sort an array by (anything)?"
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:25:46 -0400
From: dragons@scescape.net (Matthew Bafford)
Subject: Re: Number Sort
Message-Id: <MPG.106f2ed8338cdc309896af@news.south-carolina.net>
In article <6u3mbu$bmh$1@news.monmouth.com> on Sun, 20 Sep 1998
15:37:26 -0400, Matt (splinter@monmouth.com) pounded in the
following text:
=> Hi,
=>
=> How would I take an array which looks like this...
=>
=> @anarray = ('number | some text | some text | some text ' , ' number | some
=> text | some text ');
=>
=> and make it sort each "record" by the number in the front. I need it sorted
=> from smallest to greatest and placed back into that array.
How about:
@anarray = ( '2|Two', '4|Four', '5|Five', '3|Three', '1|One' );
@anarray = sort { $a <=> $b } @anarray;
print join "\n", @anarray;
__END__
1|One
2|Two
3|Three
4|Four
5|Five
-----
If this seems strange, remember Perl uses atof to do it's string
to number conversions.
So
2|Two
is converted to
2
for the <=> (spaceship) operator.
=> Thanks.
Hope This Helps!
=> -Matt
--Matthew
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:44:54 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Number Sort
Message-Id: <MPG.106f0922438b8ab2989877@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and copy mailed.]
In article <MPG.106f2ed8338cdc309896af@news.south-carolina.net> on Sun,
20 Sep 1998 16:25:46 -0400, Matthew Bafford <dragons@scescape.net>
says...
> How about:
> @anarray = ( '2|Two', '4|Four', '5|Five', '3|Three', '1|One' );
> @anarray = sort { $a <=> $b } @anarray;
...
> If this seems strange, remember Perl uses atof to do it's string
> to number conversions.
How about trying that with the '-w' flag set? You *do* use the '-w'
flag, don't you? Doesn't everybody? All the time???
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:52:27 GMT
From: "Garry T. Williams" <garry@america.net>
Subject: Re: Number Sort
Message-Id: <36057963.9A2CC13F@america.net>
Matthew Bafford wrote:
>
> In article <6u3mbu$bmh$1@news.monmouth.com> on Sun, 20 Sep 1998
> 15:37:26 -0400, Matt (splinter@monmouth.com) pounded in the
> following text:
> => Hi,
> =>
> => How would I take an array which looks like this...
> =>
> => @anarray = ('number | some text | some text | some text ' , ' number | some
> => text | some text ');
> =>
> => and make it sort each "record" by the number in the front. I need it sorted
> => from smallest to greatest and placed back into that array.
>
> How about:
>
> @anarray = ( '2|Two', '4|Four', '5|Five', '3|Three', '1|One' );
> @anarray = sort { $a <=> $b } @anarray;
> print join "\n", @anarray;
>
> __END__
> 1|One
> 2|Two
> 3|Three
> 4|Four
> 5|Five
Well the easiest way I know of sorting with this kind of dataset is to
use
sort -t \| -k 1,1n < infile > outfile
If that's not convenient, here's a solution to the problem that Larry
pointed out in the program above:
#!/opt/perl/bin/perl -w
use strict;
my @anarray;
my ($akey, $bkey);
my $element;
@anarray = ( '2|Two', '46|Four', '501|Five', '3|Three', '1|One',
'2|Second Two', '2|Third Two', '6|Six with | in it');
sub numerically {
($akey) = split(/\|/, $a);
($bkey) = split(/\|/, $b);
$akey <=> $bkey;
};
@anarray = sort numerically @anarray;
foreach $element ( @anarray ) {
print $element, "\n";
}
------------------------------------------
1|One
2|Two
2|Second Two
2|Third Two
3|Three
6|Six with | in it
46|Four
501|Five
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 12:39:34 PDT
From: Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <36055983.94D22F13@acm.org>
George Reese wrote:
>
> In comp.lang.java.programmer Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> wrote:
> : In any case, those aspects of programming that have been reduced to
> : algorithms are not what programmers should be spending their time
> : doing. There is a natural progression:
>
> : 1. Algorithms are identified for doing aspect A of programming.
>
> : 2. The algorithms for doing A are incorporated into software tools.
>
> : 3. A stops being a everyday part of programming, and the size and
> : difficulty of programs that are considered writable is increased so
> : that programming is right at the limit of what programmers can do,
> : even without having to worry about A.
>
> This is false because the algorithm is described in human language,
> something a computer is incapable of understanding. And we have yet
> to find a way to describe these algorithms in a form the computer can
> understand. It is totally false to believe that because an algorithm
> exists for doing X that a computer can do X.
As far as I know, the Church-Turing hypothesis still stands
uncontradicted. Perhaps you could post an example of a non-computable
algorithm? A clear unambigous statement of the algorithm in English
would be fine.
>
> --
> George Reese (borg@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
> PGP Key: http://www.imaginary.com/servlet/Finger?user=borg&verbose=yes
> "Keep Ted Turner and his goddamned Crayolas away from my movie."
> -Orson Welles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:15:47 -0700
From: news@russo.org (Chris Russo)
Subject: Re: script: scriptMangle!
Message-Id: <news-2009981415470001@buzz.hq.alink.net>
In article
<Pine.GSO.3.95.980919210456.1087A-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>, Craig
Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
>What is it about this issue that brings out people's ad-hominem attack
>mode?
[ Snipped ]
>Honestly, that wasn't and isn't my intention. I wish someone could tell
>me why it's being taken that way!
Your error is in assuming that you're in a rational discussion, based upon
economics and logic.
To the contrary, you're touching upon "Free Software", and it is a
religious issue.
So either be prepared to weather irrational chastisement, or keep your
mouth shut, like I (normally) do.
Regards,
Chris Russo
--
Chris Russo
news@russo.org
http://www.russo.org
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 10:30:17 +0100
From: dwmalone@maths.tcd.ie (David Malone)
Subject: Re: Shell-scripts and #! ( big dilemma ) !
Message-Id: <6u2hv9$igs@walton.maths.tcd.ie>
Serge.Noiraud@bull.net (Serge Noiraud) writes:
>I have one big dilemma !
>I have shell-scripts with the #! magic number.
>I can't use #!perl even if my PATH is correct.
>I can't use #! $HOME/local/IRIX5/bin because this shellscript won't work on an AIX system.
>I can't use #! $PREFIX/bin/perl
>Do you have any Idea ? Is there one solution ?
Make ~/local/bin/perl which says:
#!/bin/sh
exec $PREFIX/bin/perl
David.
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 14:27:53 -0500
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: where is Date::Parse (CPAN.pm)?
Message-Id: <6u3kvp$4uo$1@Mercury.mcs.net>
In article <ylg1dnnx3w.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>,
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
>> Does your tool tell you if your installed copy is outdated compared to
>> the version on CPAN?
>
>Doesn't quite yet, but it will shortly. I have all the pieces, I just
>have to plug a call to Net::FTP or the appropriate LWP method into it and
>add a little filename parsing code. And then it will work for any
>software package, not just for Perl packages.
I've had enough trouble with perl packages where the author forgot
to bump the version number before dropping it on CPAN. How can
you generalize version checking?
>Don't get me wrong; CPAN.pm does a great job at solving the problem that
>it was designed to solve. That's just not the problem that I'm interested
>in solving, and it has a few behaviors as an inherent part of its design
>that bug me.
I've had trouble with:
o Initial install behind a firewall where the environment variables
weren't set up right for root to do proxy ftp with the native
tools.
o Breaking CPAN itself where a new module needed by CPAN doesn't
install correctly or happens to be broken on the particular
platform, or introduces a new dependency on a module you don't
have. (There should be an easy way to fall back to native tools
after setting up the Net:: tools and LWP so you can fix this).
and my wish list:
o There should be an easy way to jump to interactive mode after the
source is expanded in the build directory to handle cases where
you need special options or testing before installing.
o There should be a way to install all the same modules with the
same options on another platform, given a reference setup so
once you get a test machine working you can duplicate it onto
production machines in one operation. In the context of handling
more than perl modules, this part should still work even if
the source and target hosts are running different OS versions.
o Dependencies are a nightmare for any automated hander, so I
don't even have a suggestion for how to handle cases where
updating one module requires some number of other modules to
be rebuilt even if their version didn't change, but...
Les Mikesell
les@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: 20 Sep 1998 12:38:36 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: where is Date::Parse (CPAN.pm)?
Message-Id: <ylzpbuk20z.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
Leslie Mikesell <les@MCS.COM> writes:
> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
>> Doesn't quite yet, but it will shortly. I have all the pieces, I just
>> have to plug a call to Net::FTP or the appropriate LWP method into it
>> and add a little filename parsing code. And then it will work for any
>> software package, not just for Perl packages.
> I've had enough trouble with perl packages where the author forgot to
> bump the version number before dropping it on CPAN. How can you
> generalize version checking?
Nothing's going to work perfectly with everything, and in fact nothing's
likely to work as well across all Perl modules as CPAN.pm. However,
CPAN.pm fails miserably for anything that's *not* a Perl module, and I'm
trying to solve the general problem of handling a very large distributed
software tree, of which Perl modules are only a small part. :)
The solution I'm working with right now currently looks quite a bit like
RPM but without all of the tracking of installed files (we have cleaner
ways of doing that already), without binary packages, with quite a bit
more attention paid to the process of building from source, and without a
dependency on a somewhat obscure archive format.
I'm probably going to bail on a lot of the complexity of version checking
by taking the simple expedient of checking timestamps. And yeah, beta
versions are still a problem, but this isn't meant to run unattented.
> o There should be a way to install all the same modules with the same
> options on another platform, given a reference setup so once you get
> a test machine working you can duplicate it onto production machines
> in one operation. In the context of handling more than perl modules,
> this part should still work even if the source and target hosts are
> running different OS versions.
This is one of the big problems that I had with CPAN.pm, yes. I do almost
nothing on only one architecture; usually, I'm working with seven at once.
> o Dependencies are a nightmare for any automated hander, so I don't
> even have a suggestion for how to handle cases where updating one
> module requires some number of other modules to be rebuilt even if
> their version didn't change, but...
I'm not even trying to touch that either. Manual intervention time.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3766
**************************************
