[98263] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with credits
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (johnny@nerdist.com)
Thu Mar 27 13:15:58 2014
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:15:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: johnny@nerdist.com
To: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABSTb1dKqS-x4Q-rvMRO8RZ1FLbaCU_h1VWcnc+f-SdC8JhyXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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=0APlease remove me from this mailing list=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=
=0AFrom: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>=0ASent: Thu=
rsday, March 27, 2014 12:38pm=0ATo: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kl=
i.org>=0ASubject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with cred=
its=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:03 AM, SuStel <[mailto:sust=
el@trimboli.name] sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:=0AAs time goes on I am less =
and less convinced that the dictionary glosses=0A are meant to show us appr=
opriate objects.=0A=0AI think it comes down to this: Klingons will use an o=
bject whenever the=0A subject performs the verb on the object, regardless o=
f our English=0A gloss, and as long as it's clear what it meant.Non-native =
English speakers particularly have trouble with the idiomatic way we often =
paper over the verb-object relation with a preposition. But we have no trou=
ble understanding what is meant by "I participate conference," or "I partic=
ipate for conference." Klingon hasn't had a lot of time for usages to devel=
op, but one recent example that made me smile is that the qepHom is still c=
alled that even though it has gotten bigger than the qep'a'.=0AWhat about {=
Qoch} & {Qochbe'}? This came up a few months ago regarding use of sentence-=
as-object for the matter agreed upon: whether it was correct usage to say ?=
{maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'}. Would you object to this usage? Also an object coul=
d logically be the person (dis)agreed with, as in ?{muQoch matlh}. But woul=
d a Klingon would tolerate an imprecise construction like ?{maHIvrup 'e' Qo=
ch matlh jIH je} when it would be just as easy to state who thinks what: {m=
aHIvrup 'e' Qub matlh. jIQoch}?=0A~'eD=0A-- =0AMy modeling blog: [=
http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/] http://bellerophon-modeler.blogsp=
ot.com/=0A My other modeling blog: [http://bellerophon.blog.com/] http://b=
ellerophon.blog.com/
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<font face=3D"arial" size=3D"3"><p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;">Please rem=
ove me from this mailing list</p>=0A<p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;"> =
</p>=0A<p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;">-----Original Message-----<br />Fro=
m: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com><br />Sent: =
Thursday, March 27, 2014 12:38pm<br />To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhing=
an-hol@kli.org><br />Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath pa=
rt 4, with credits<br /><br /></p>=0A<div id=3D"SafeStyles1395940446">=0A<d=
iv dir=3D"ltr">=0A<div class=3D"gmail_extra">=0A<div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:03 AM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m=
ailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>><=
/span> wrote:<br />=0A<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 =
0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">As time goes on =
I am less and less convinced that the dictionary glosses<br /> are meant to=
show us appropriate objects.<br /></blockquote>=0A<div></div>=0A<blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc =
solid; padding-left: 1ex;">I think it comes down to this: Klingons will use=
an object whenever the<br /> subject performs the verb on the object, rega=
rdless of our English<br /> gloss, and as long as it's clear what it meant.=
</blockquote>=0A</div>=0ANon-native English speakers particularly have trou=
ble with the idiomatic way we often paper over the verb-object relation wit=
h a preposition. But we have no trouble understanding what is meant by "I p=
articipate conference," or "I participate for conference." Klingon hasn't h=
ad a lot of time for usages to develop, but one recent example that ma=
de me smile is that the qepHom is still called that even though it has gott=
en bigger than the qep'a'.</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_extra">What about {Q=
och} & {Qochbe'}? This came up a few months ago regarding use of senten=
ce-as-object for the matter agreed upon: whether it was correct usage to sa=
y ?{maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'}. Would you object to this usage? Also an object c=
ould logically be the person (dis)agreed with, as in ?{muQoch matlh}. But w=
ould a Klingon would tolerate an imprecise construction like ?{maHIvrup 'e'=
Qoch matlh jIH je} when it would be just as easy to state who thinks what:=
{maHIvrup 'e' Qub matlh. jIQoch}?</div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_extra">~'eD<=
/div>=0A<div class=3D"gmail_extra">-- <br />My modeling blog: &n=
bsp; <a href=3D"http://bellerophon-mode=
ler.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.co=
m/</a><br /> My other modeling blog: <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.bl=
og.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a></div>=0A</div>=
=0A</div></font>
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