[98262] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with credits
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bellerophon, modeler)
Thu Mar 27 12:38:46 2014
In-Reply-To: <20140327080354.a41e5a76f06d90ef255b5a241771595e.f6a007a097.wbe@email01.secureserver.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:38:18 -0400
From: "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:03 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> As time goes on I am less and less convinced that the dictionary glosses
> are meant to show us appropriate objects.
>
> I think it comes down to this: Klingons will use an object whenever the
> subject performs the verb on the object, regardless of our English
> gloss, and as long as it's clear what it meant.
Non-native English speakers particularly have trouble with the idiomatic
way we often paper over the verb-object relation with a preposition. But we
have no trouble understanding what is meant by "I participate conference,"
or "I participate for conference." Klingon hasn't had a lot of time for
usages to develop, but one recent example that made me smile is that the
qepHom is still called that even though it has gotten bigger than the
qep'a'.
What about {Qoch} & {Qochbe'}? This came up a few months ago regarding use
of sentence-as-object for the matter agreed upon: whether it was correct
usage to say ?{maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'}. Would you object to this usage? Also
an object could logically be the person (dis)agreed with, as in ?{muQoch
matlh}. But would a Klingon would tolerate an imprecise construction like
?{maHIvrup 'e' Qoch matlh jIH je} when it would be just as easy to state
who thinks what: {maHIvrup 'e' Qub matlh. jIQoch}?
~'eD
--
My modeling blog: http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/
My other modeling blog: http://bellerophon.blog.com/
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Mar 27, 2014 at 11:03 AM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></spa=
n> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">As time goes on I am less and less convinced=
that the dictionary glosses<br>
are meant to show us appropriate objects.<br></blockquote><div>=C2=A0</div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I think it comes down to this: Klingons will use an object whenever the<br>
subject performs the verb on the object, regardless of our English<br>
gloss, and as long as it's clear what it meant.</blockquote></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>Non-native English speakers particularly ha=
ve trouble with the idiomatic way we often paper over the verb-object relat=
ion with a preposition. But we have no trouble understanding what is meant =
by "I participate conference," or "I participate for confere=
nce." Klingon hasn't had a lot of time for usages=C2=A0to develop,=
but one recent example that made me smile is that the qepHom is still call=
ed that even though it has gotten bigger than the qep'a'.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">What about =
{Qoch} & {Qochbe'}? This came up a few months ago regarding use of =
sentence-as-object for the matter agreed upon: whether it was correct usage=
to say ?{maQoch 'e' wIQochbe'}. Would you object to this usage=
? Also an object could logically be the person (dis)agreed with, as in ?{mu=
Qoch matlh}. But would a Klingon would tolerate an imprecise construction l=
ike ?{maHIvrup 'e' Qoch matlh jIH je} when it would be just as easy=
to state who thinks what: {maHIvrup 'e' Qub matlh. jIQoch}?</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">~'eD</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div><b=
r></div>-- <br>My modeling blog:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">http://bellerophon-modeler.blogspot.com/</a><br>
My other modeling blog:=C2=A0 <a href=3D"http://bellerophon.blog.com/" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://bellerophon.blog.com/</a><br>
</div></div>
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