[98255] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with credits
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Tue Mar 25 20:03:57 2014
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "tlhIngan Hol mailing list" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <8D1165645AFC29D-2F5C-59221@webmail-m215.sysops.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:03:38 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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From: Brad Wilson [mailto:bmacliam@aol.com]
Sent: March 25, 2014 8:30
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with credits
jIghItlh > vavnI': qaStaHvIS ramvetlh bochlI' pIraqSIS maSwov.
ghItlh Qov > You don?t need qaStaHvIS with a timestamp. ramvetlh, bochtaHvIS
pIraqSIS maSwov ... translates the sentence
fragment more accurately.
jIQochbe'.
ghItlh Qov > I don?t see why you?d choose ?lI? for the continuous aspect
because the moonlight isn?t shining to an achievable end.
I didn't understand the fine difference between -taH and -lI'.
Qov> Do you now? If something is progressing towards a definite end point,
it may be described with -lI'. If it is progressing without mention of such
an endpoint, then -taH. The same distinction exists between -pu' and -ta':
to show a deliberately undertaken action you may use -ta'.
jIghItlh > Tell the story of your targh truthfully. / targh Dawam
vIja'taHvIS yIvIt.
ghItlh Qov > but there?s a first person verb in the translation and none in
the English, so I don?t follow.
ghuy'. moHaq vIqawHa'qa'. The boy was recounting his first targ hunt.
Better perhaps: targh Dawam Daja'taHvIS yIvIt.
Qov> We haven't seen this use of ja' in canon. I'd be more comfortable if
you made it <targh chon DaDeltaHvIS> or something like that. ja' is glossed
as tell, report, not tell about.
jIghItlh > I am proud of you, son of my son. / qaHem puqloDwI' puqloD.
ghItlh Qov > Hem isn?t glossed as ?proud of?. I?d prefer: SoHmo? jIHem.
I suppose at the heart of it is whether we are proud of a person or of that
person's accomplishment?
ta'lIj vIHem. / ta'meylIj vIHem. / bIpo'mo' vIHem. / bIghojchu'pu' vIHem.
Qov> The choHemmoH suggestion someone gave you is superior to SoHmo'. Hem is
be proud, not be proud of, so only your variant with -mo' is correct.
gheyIl
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D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Brad =
Wilson [mailto:bmacliam@aol.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> March 25, 2014 =
8:30<br><b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tlhingan-hol] The Legend of Gorath part 4, with =
credits<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>j=
IghItlh > vavnI': qaStaHvIS ramvetlh bochlI' pIraqSIS =
maSwov.<br>ghItlh Qov > You don?t need qaStaHvIS with a =
timestamp. ramvetlh, bochtaHvIS pIraqSIS maSwov ... translates the =
sentence <br>fragment more =
accurately.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>j=
IQochbe'.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>g=
hItlh Qov > I don?t see why you?d choose ?lI? for the continuous =
aspect because the moonlight isn?t shining to an achievable =
end.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
didn't understand the fine difference between -taH and =
-lI'.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Qov> Do you now? If something is progressing towards a definite =
end point, it may be described with –lI’. If it is =
progressing without mention of such an endpoint, then –taH. The =
same distinction exists between –pu’ and –ta’: =
to show a deliberately undertaken action you may use =
–ta’.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>j=
IghItlh > Tell the story of your targh truthfully. / targh Dawam =
vIja'taHvIS yIvIt.<br>ghItlh Qov > but there?s a first person verb in =
the translation and none in the English, so I don?t =
follow.<br><br>ghuy'. moHaq vIqawHa'qa'. The boy was recounting his =
first targ hunt.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>B=
etter perhaps: targh Dawam Daja'taHvIS yIvIt.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br><br>Qov> We haven’t seen this use of ja’ in canon. =
I’d be more comfortable if you made it <targh chon =
DaDeltaHvIS> or something like that. ja’ is glossed as tell, =
report, not tell about.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>j=
IghItlh > I am proud of you, son of my son. / qaHem puqloDwI' =
puqloD.<br>ghItlh Qov > Hem isn?t glossed as ?proud of?. I?d prefer: =
SoHmo? jIHem.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I=
suppose at the heart of it is whether we are proud of a person or of =
that person's accomplishment?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>t=
a'lIj vIHem. / ta'meylIj vIHem. / bIpo'mo' vIHem. / bIghojchu'pu' =
vIHem.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><br><br>Qov> The choHemmoH suggestion someone gave you is superior =
to SoHmo’. Hem is be proud, not be proud of, so only your variant =
with –mo’ is correct.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>g=
heyIl<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>
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