[110164] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] SuStel please tell me, I need to know..
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Jul 31 11:39:33 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:38:59 -0400
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On 7/31/2017 11:20 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> SuStel:
>> Sometimes it is speculated that you need a subject if the purpose clause attaches to a
>> sentence instead of a noun
> Because grammar terms confuse me, could you write an example of this ?
I already did. The noun phrase *ghojmeH taj* is a purpose clause,
*ghojmeH,* attached to a head noun, *taj. taj* is not the subject of
*ghojmeH;* the knife does not learn anything. It's not an /in order that
he/she learns knife;/ it's a /knife for learning./ There is no subject.
It's not an indefinite subject because there's no *-lu';* there is
simply no subject. This is an infinitive, or as close to an infinitive
as Klingon gets.
An even more interesting example is *ja'chuqmeH rojHom* /truce (in
order) to confer./ The purpose clause has a suffixes that says the
subject is a plural entity whose constituents do something to each
other, but there is no subject in the phrase. There /might/ be people
ready to confer during a truce, but the phrase doesn't say that.
Or take the simple *vutmeH 'un*/pot for preparing food./ The pot is a
pot for preparing food whether or not there is someone about to prepare
food in it. *vutmeH* has no subject, implied or otherwise.
But there are tons of examples where a purpose clause, attached to a
sentence instead of a noun, gets prefixes and suffixes and a subject.
*Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam* is a well-known one. Or *cha'puj vIngevmeH chaw'
HInobneS,* which even has an object.
Given that the distinction seems to be "infinitive" for nouns and
"finite" for sentences, I probably should have written *jatlhqu'lu'meH.*
*shrug*
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/31/2017 11:20 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLqoDnW4D1kGcTiePiBp-Nj_cWNkUqC2nQnWwQpibD6eA@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">Sometimes it is speculated that you need a subject if the purpose clause attaches to a
sentence instead of a noun
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Because grammar terms confuse me, could you write an example of this ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>I already did. The noun phrase <b>ghojmeH taj</b> is a purpose
clause, <b>ghojmeH,</b> attached to a head noun, <b>taj. taj</b>
is not the subject of <b>ghojmeH;</b> the knife does not learn
anything. It's not an <i>in order that he/she learns knife;</i>
it's a <i>knife for learning.</i> There is no subject. It's not
an indefinite subject because there's no <b>-lu';</b> there is
simply no subject. This is an infinitive, or as close to an
infinitive as Klingon gets.</p>
<p>An even more interesting example is <b>ja'chuqmeH rojHom</b> <i>truce
(in order) to confer.</i> The purpose clause has a suffixes that
says the subject is a plural entity whose constituents do
something to each other, but there is no subject in the phrase.
There <i>might</i> be people ready to confer during a truce, but
the phrase doesn't say that.</p>
<p>Or take the simple <b>vutmeH 'un</b><i> pot for preparing food.</i>
The pot is a pot for preparing food whether or not there is
someone about to prepare food in it. <b>vutmeH</b> has no
subject, implied or otherwise.</p>
<p>But there are tons of examples where a purpose clause, attached
to a sentence instead of a noun, gets prefixes and suffixes and a
subject. <b>Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam</b> is a well-known one. Or <b>cha'puj
vIngevmeH chaw' HInobneS,</b> which even has an object.</p>
<p>Given that the distinction seems to be "infinitive" for nouns and
"finite" for sentences, I probably should have written <b>jatlhqu'lu'meH.</b>
*shrug*<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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