[102236] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A moment of clarity
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qunnoQ HoD)
Thu Nov 12 09:49:06 2015
In-Reply-To: <BAY179-W60C4440B748D479937A7CEAA120@phx.gbl>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:48:51 +0200
From: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> So what is it about "molon lave" that carries the sense of defiance? Is
it the choice of words, the specific grammar, the cultural association with
that particular event, or what?
I just don't know ! I can't put it in words. It really makes me sad,that I
cannot convey in english/klingon its original *feeling*. Its like trying to
describe to someone the taste of a food,he has never tasted. You might be
able to get close ; maybe very-very close. But in the end there is no way
he could understand the true *taste*,except if he eventually tasted it
himself.
> It carries the meaning, but is too wordy. The Spartans, via their home
province of Laconia, were responsible for the adjective "laconic", and
Leonidas's two-word reply of "mol=C3=B4n labe" - literally, "having come, t=
ake"
- is often cited
> as being a classic example of laconic (or Laconic, in fact) speech. Its
brevity is a large part of what gives it its punch.
EXACTLY !
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Rohan Fenwick <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wrote:
> ghItlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:
> > Persian messenger: Separtanpu=E2=80=99! rejeyta=E2=80=99! nuHmeylIj tIc=
haghchugh
>
> {tIchaghchugh}? Surely it should be either {bochaghchugh} or {tIchagh}.
>
> jang qunnoQ HoD, jatlh:
> > why {Separtanpu'} and not {Spartanpu'} ?
>
> As ghunchu'wI' points out, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv's choice here has to do with
> the fact that Klingon syllables cannot start with more than one consonant=
.
> So in order for a Klingon to pronounce it comfortably, there has to be a
> vowel inserted between them. From the EuroTalk CD, for instance, we know
> that "strawberry" becomes {Sutra'ber naH}, "France" becomes {vIraS},
> "grape" becomes {ghIrep naH}.
>
> ghItlhqa'pu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:
> > vaj SuyIntaH =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 wIchaw=E2=80=99qang.
> > Leonidas: nuHmaj boSuqlaH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99? ghotob jay=E2=80=99!
>
> It carries the meaning, but is too wordy. The Spartans, via their home
> province of Laconia, were responsible for the adjective "laconic", and
> Leonidas's two-word reply of "mol=C3=B4n labe" - literally, "having come,=
take"
> - is often cited as being a classic example of laconic (or Laconic, in
> fact) speech. Its brevity is a large part of what gives it its punch.
>
> I think SuStel has it on the nose with {Ha', tItlhap}.
>
> QeS 'utlh
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>> So what is it about "molon lave" that =
carries the sense of defiance? Is=20
it the choice of words, the specific grammar, the cultural association=20
with that particular event, or what?<br></div><div><br>I just don't kno=
w ! I can't put it in words. It really makes me sad,that I cannot conve=
y in english/klingon its original *feeling*. Its like trying to describe to=
someone the taste of a food,he has never tasted. You might be able to get =
close ; maybe very-very close. But in the end there is no way he could unde=
rstand the true *taste*,except if he eventually tasted it himself.<br></div=
><div><br>> It carries the meaning, but is too wordy. The Spartans, via =
their home=20
province of Laconia, were responsible for the adjective "laconic"=
, and=20
Leonidas's two-word reply of "mol=C3=B4n labe" - literally, &=
quot;having come,=20
take" - is often cited <br>> as being a classic example of laconic =
(or=20
Laconic, in fact) speech. Its brevity is a large part of what gives it=20
its punch.<br><br></div>EXACTLY !<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Rohan Fenwick <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com" target=3D"_blank=
">qeslagh@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">ghItlhpu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:<span =
class=3D""><br>> Persian messenger: Separtanpu=E2=80=99! rejeyta=E2=80=
=99! nuHmeylIj tIchaghchugh<br><br></span>{tIchaghchugh}? Surely it should =
be either {bochaghchugh} or {tIchagh}.<br><br>jang qunnoQ HoD, jatlh:<br><d=
iv><span class=3D"">> why {Separtanpu'} and not {Spartanpu'} ?<b=
r><br></span>As ghunchu'wI' points out, lojmIt tI'wI' nuv&#=
39;s choice here has to do with the fact that Klingon syllables cannot star=
t with more than one consonant. So in order for a Klingon to pronounce it c=
omfortably, there has to be a vowel inserted between them. From the EuroTal=
k CD, for instance, we know that "strawberry" becomes {Sutra'=
ber naH}, "France" becomes {vIraS}, "grape" becomes {gh=
Irep naH}.<br><br>ghItlhqa'pu' lojmIt tI'wI' nuv, jatlh:<br=
></div><span class=3D"">> vaj SuyIntaH =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 wIchaw=E2=80=
=99qang.<br>
> Leonidas: nuHmaj boSuqlaH=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99? ghotob jay=E2=80=99!<br>=
<br></span>It carries the meaning, but is too wordy. The Spartans, via thei=
r home province of Laconia, were responsible for the adjective "laconi=
c", and Leonidas's two-word reply of "mol=C3=B4n labe" -=
literally, "having come, take" - is often cited as being a class=
ic example of laconic (or Laconic, in fact) speech. Its brevity is a large =
part of what gives it its punch.<br><br>I think SuStel has it on the nose w=
ith {Ha', tItlhap}.<br><br>QeS 'utlh </div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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rrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</=
a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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