[100020] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] how to show entries without canon English
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Mon Dec 22 17:16:22 2014
In-Reply-To: <ACF6622D959A8842A81E4471BA56A7E04BD503F2@xm-mbx-04-prod.ad.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:16:05 +0100
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I do something very similar to Voragh. I keep my dictionary in LexiquePro
which is searchable in both directions (plus part of speech and even a
possible search from the end, which is useful for finding rhymes or words
with suffixes!). Okrandian definitions and also direct translations from
English glosses I just put in as "official" definitions, but unclear
translations or synonyms I put there myself I mark with an asterisk after
them. So for the entry {mach} I have the following gloss:
small, be; little, be*
One might perhaps argue that there is a difference between "small" and
"little" in English, but when looking up words, it's very handy to find
them in the dictionary even if I don't know the exact English word Marc was
using as the gloss. But I always mark them. Here are some more examples
(the real entries contain more data, e.g. source, part of speech, example
sentences, notes on usage, notes on grammar, sometimes pictures...
{mab} (n.) =3D treaty; contract*
{Sung} (n.) =3D native; inhabitant*; citizen*; local*; people*; person*
{jentu'} (n.) =3D bird, type of; penguin*
{lughbe'} (vi.) =3D wrong, be; incorrect, be*; mistaken, be*
Of course, a treaty isn't the same as a contract. But at least I will find
this word as a near-synonym when I want to talk about a contract. I found
this very handy. Sometimes looking for an English word several options show
up. I then can compare their canonical glosses and find the most suitable
hit. My entry for {rop'a'} only contained plague, but I just added
epidemic* as a possible non-canon translation, when I read Voragh's
addition.
For words completely without canonical definitions, all the glosses have
asterisks, e.g.:
{'aplo'} (n.) =3D container*; box*; case*; enclosure*
{qoSta'} (n.) =3D strip*; tape*; band*
- Andr=C3=A9
2014-12-22 16:42 GMT+01:00 Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>:
> De'vID:
> > In the spirit of that last discussion about slang, how should entries
> where the
> > English definition isn't canon, but the Klingon word comes from Okrand,
> be shown
> > in word lists? ... However, there are a few where we've had to infer
> their meanings
> > from their usage. For example, many of the new words revealed in Klingo=
n
> Monopoly
> > fall into this category. ....
> > And what about constructs like {rop'a'} "plague", do you have a separat=
e
> entry for
> > it, or do you consider it an obvious derivate of {rop}?
> > For those of you keeping word lists, do you just give your own English
> definitions
> > of these words? Is it marked somehow?
>
> I mark them by using different fonts (i.e. italics) and question marks,
> followed by the relevant citation. E.g. here are my entries for {rop} an=
d
> {rop'a'}:
>
> {rop} be sick, be ill (v)
> (cf. {pIvHa'} be unhealthy, {ngej} infect, {'oy'} "ache, hurt, be sore=
",
> {'aw'} sting, {bech} suffer, {vul} be unconscious, {vulchoH} faint,
> {vor}
> cure; ant. {pIv} be healthy; cf. {'uH} "have a hangover" & {wuQ} "have=
a
> headache")
> - {rop} He/she is sick. KLS
> - {jIroplaw'} I feel sick. CK
> - {ropchoHbe' tlhInganpu'} Klingons do not get sick. TKW
> - {tlhIngan yoH pIv verengan yoH rop} The Klingon is braver than the
> Ferengi (slang) KGT
>
>
> {rop} disease, sickness (n), *illness*, *syndrome* (esp. in Trek?)
> (cf. {poq} indigestion, {pom} dysentery, {bep} agony & {'oy'} "ache,
> pain"; cf. also *neHret* & *rop'ngor*)
>
>
> {rop'a'} plague (n.) (MKE), *epidemic*(?)
> - {qarDaSQa'Daq ruDelya' rop'a' Hergh qengbogh yo' Dabot}
> Intercept Rudellian plague relief convoy to Cardassian Union. (MKE)
>
> N.B. {bold} and *italics*.
>
> I think there's no doubt as to the meaning of {rop'a'} "plague" from the
> Monopoly (MKE) card, but I did add *epidemic* to my entry as an obvious
> extension/synonym and as an aid to searching in future. The different
> fonts show me which translation is strictly canon and which isn't. In th=
is
> case there is a difference between a plague and an epidemic, but it doesn=
't
> really matter for our purposes (unless you're writing a medical text).
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>I do something very sim=
ilar to Voragh. I keep my dictionary in LexiquePro which is searchable in b=
oth directions (plus part of speech and even a possible search from the end=
, which is useful for finding rhymes or words with suffixes!). Okrandian de=
finitions and also direct translations from English glosses I just put in a=
s "official" definitions, but unclear translations or synonyms I =
put there myself I mark with an asterisk after them. So for the entry {mach=
} I have the following gloss:<br><br></div>small, be; little, be*<br><br></=
div>One might perhaps argue that there is a difference between "small&=
quot; and "little" in English, but when looking up words, it'=
s very handy to find them in the dictionary even if I don't know the ex=
act English word Marc was using as the gloss. But I always mark them. Here =
are some more examples (the real entries contain more data, e.g. source, pa=
rt of speech, example sentences, notes on usage, notes on grammar, sometime=
s pictures...<br><br></div>{mab} (n.) =3D treaty; contract*<br></div><div>{=
Sung} (n.) =3D native; inhabitant*; citizen*; local*; people*; person*<br><=
/div><div>{jentu'} (n.) =3D bird, type of; penguin*<br></div><div>{lugh=
be'} (vi.) =3D wrong, be; incorrect, be*; mistaken, be*<br></div><div><=
br></div>Of course, a treaty isn't the same as a contract. But at least=
I will find this word as a near-synonym when I want to talk about a contra=
ct. I found this very handy. Sometimes looking for an English word several =
options show up. I then can compare their canonical glosses and find the mo=
st suitable hit. My entry for {rop'a'} only contained plague, but I=
just added epidemic* as a possible non-canon translation, when I read Vora=
gh's addition.<br><br></div>For words completely without canonical defi=
nitions, all the glosses have asterisks, e.g.:<br><br></div>{'aplo'=
} (n.) =3D container*; box*; case*; enclosure*<br></div><div>{qoSta'} (=
n.) =3D strip*; tape*; band*<br></div><div><br></div><div>- Andr=C3=A9<br><=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2014-12-=
22 16:42 GMT+01:00 Steven Boozer <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sb=
oozer@uchicago.edu" target=3D"_blank">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>></span>:<=
br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">De'vID:<br>
<span class=3D"">> In the spirit of that last discussion about slang, ho=
w should entries where the<br>
> English definition isn't canon, but the Klingon word comes from Ok=
rand, be shown<br>
</span>> in word lists? ... However, there are a few where we've had=
to infer their meanings<br>
<span class=3D"">> from their usage. For example, many of the new words =
revealed in Klingon Monopoly<br>
</span>> fall into this category. ....<br>
<span class=3D"">> And what about constructs like {rop'a'} "=
;plague", do you have a separate entry for<br>
> it, or do you consider it an obvious derivate of {rop}?<br>
> For those of you keeping word lists, do you just give your own English=
definitions<br>
> of these words? Is it marked somehow?<br>
<br>
</span>I mark them by using different fonts (i.e. italics) and question mar=
ks, followed by the relevant citation.=C2=A0 E.g. here are my entries for {=
rop} and {rop'a'}:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 {rop}=C2=A0 be sick, be ill (v)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(cf. {pIvHa'} be unhealthy, {ngej} infect, {'oy'} =
"ache, hurt, be sore",<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0{'aw'} sting, {bech} suffer, {vul} be unconscious, {vu=
lchoH} faint, {vor}<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0cure; ant. {pIv} be healthy; cf. {'uH} "have a hangov=
er" & {wuQ} "have a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0headache")<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - {rop} He/she is sick. KLS<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - {jIroplaw'} I feel sick. CK<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - {ropchoHbe' tlhInganpu'} Klingons do not get sick. =
TKW<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 - {tlhIngan yoH pIv verengan yoH rop} The Klingon is braver t=
han the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ferengi (slang) KGT<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 {rop}=C2=A0 disease, sickness (n), *illness*, *syndrome* (esp. in Tr=
ek?)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(cf. {poq} indigestion, {pom} dysentery, {bep} agony & {&#=
39;oy'} "ache,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 pain"; cf. also *neHret* & *rop'ngor*)<br>
<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 {rop'a'}=C2=A0 plague (n.) (MKE), *epidemic*(?)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- {qarDaSQa'Daq ruDelya' rop'a' Hergh qengbogh=
yo' Dabot}<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Intercept Rudellian plague relief convoy to Cardassian =
Union. (MKE)<br>
<br>
N.B. {bold} and *italics*.<br>
<br>
I think there's no doubt as to the meaning of {rop'a'} "pl=
ague" from the Monopoly (MKE) card, but I did add *epidemic* to my ent=
ry as an obvious extension/synonym and as an aid to searching in future.=C2=
=A0 The different fonts show me which translation is strictly canon and whi=
ch isn't.=C2=A0 In this case there is a difference between a plague and=
an epidemic, but it doesn't really matter for our purposes (unless you=
're writing a medical text).<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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